Indiana Class of 2012 falls to No. 5 in rankings

Indiana’s Class of 2012, which was ranked No. 2 in the team rankings after the fall signing period, has now fallen to No. 5 thanks mostly to recent recruiting coups by Kentucky and UCLA but also to the rankings slide of La Lumiere forward Hanner Perea.

Kentucky added No. 2 prospect Nerlens Noel to its class and is now, yet again, the top ranked class in the country. UCLA added No. 1 recruit Shabazz Muhammad and No. 27 Tony Parker to a class that already included No. 3 Kyle Anderson. Arizona, which was No. 1 after the fall signing period, holds at No. 3. North Carolina State jumped Indiana thanks to a rating jump for swingman T.J. Warren and Perea’s fall from No. 16 to No. 43 on the individual list.

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  • psych says:

    Fire Crean, disband the program. They’re done for.

  • Laffy says:

    Sad part is, 4guards and the Loopers believe that.

  • Cookie says:

    Too bad. Hanner Perea kind of sucked this year. He needs to work on everything except dunking.

  • Hoosier Clarion says:

    Truth being HP is a far better player this year than last when he was #16. The * rankings are a BB novel.

  • HC,
    I’m interested in this. When did you see him and what were your impressions? To be totally honest, I expected him to have made bigger strides by now than what I’ve seen. Athleticism is still off the charts, but I think he was passed up on rankings lists because he didn’t show improvement in the fundamentals and other guys made some leaps. I don’t think I’m the only one who figured he’d have better post moves and a better handle by now. Now, I only got to see him once during high school season, so I could’ve missed something, but even his coach suggested that he’s more of a weakside, play off the other postman guy, and I think with what he showed in the summer, a number of people thought he could be more than that. What did you see?

  • Hoosier Clarion says:

    My impression is he was probably too highly ranked at #16 2 years ago. In other words his performance like many HS ballers did not match the ranking. His improvement has been most notable in D and rebounding. He runs the court like he is 6’3″. He has a decent short range jumper with damn good form. I am with you and whoever else in agreeing his post offense will be developed at the college level. He is not a 1 and done or even 2 and done. My 2nd impression is he requires the better coaching he’ll receive in Bloomington. Nobody but nobody will ever win a tip-off against him.

  • HC,
    Agreed on all points. More than any other player, seeing Perea over the past two plus years has given me an idea of how truly impossible it is to create an accurate ranking system for these kids, and as much as they get chastised to a degree, I respect the recruiting analysts for trying. Those dudes live on the road and when it really comes down to it, they just can’t get to every game. For their sake, I wish they’d attach the words “for entertainment value only” next to all of their ranking systems, because of course it isn’t going to be 100 percent accurate. That’s not humanly possible.
    I wasn’t surprised Perea was ranked as high as he was at the time because he was preternaturally gifted. I have yet to see anyone else at the high school level with that kind of length or athleticism, and for that reason, you had to consider him an elite recruit at the time. But I guess you also had to presume that the learning curve was different simply because the game was new to him and he was learning the language just as he learned the game. I thought he was a potential one or two and done when he committed, but I think you’re right that he has the potential to get a lot better at Indiana. I just think if you watched him in the summer of 2010 (which I know you did) you would have thought he’d be less of a project than he is by the winter of 2012.

  • Podunker says:

    The only ranking that matters is Tom Crean’s ranking. If he’s getting the players he wants to get, then they will be, in essence, the #1 ranked recruiting class in the country.

    If the kid does not fit the coach’s system, then he not worth anything. Look at Arizona’s top ranked point guard from last year’s class. Highly ranked, but suspended three or four times during his freshman year and he is no longer a part of the team. He was actually a detriment to Arizona last year so his “ranking” coming out of HS was totally worthless.

  • Chet says:

    I can’t help but wonder if Matt Carlino’s proximity to IU led to some subtle hints that he might actually be happier elsewhere. Perhaps CTC got to know him better and the chemistry just wasn’t right.

  • Hoosier Clarion says:


    If I may let me add a 3rd impression. Because(as you stated)the game is newer to him than to U.S. kids he has had to learn a tremendous amount in a shorter time span. I suppose with our optics we thought a year ago he would develop at our expectations of a homegrown kid. In other words who learned more the player whose travel from point A to point B was 5 inches or the player whose travel from A to B was 9 inches. HP has improved and may make the biggest improvement leap in the 1st season on campus of the whole “Movement”.

    Will we get to see you at Run -N- Slam May 4-6?

  • TsaoTsuG says:

    Hoosier Clarion’s comments are among the best I’ve read in a long, long time. Two thing are clear to me about HP. First, he has really been playing basketball- real basketball- for maybe three years, In other words, he is am 11-12-year-old. HC is right, he’s compressed 8 years of ‘hoops’ into three yeas, yet he is still compared to several who have been at it for 10+ years.

    Secondly, because he’s been at it for relatively little time think of where he is. Now look at his ceiling. Now his physical attributes make some sense.

    The key will be in the level of instruction and coaching he will have. Oladipo’s development gives us an idea. We have to believe in two things. 1. TC’s eye for future talent and 2. TC’s and staff’s teaching ability. We have to provide the patience and the time.

    Finally, where I do believe DD’s right is that the player rankings at this time may be fun for some but meaningless and that team rankings even less so since how the parts come together can not withstand guessing. I’m happy he will be at IU and even happier he’ll play for us not against us. After two years (IMHO) few will compare.

  • TsaoTsuG says:

    I had the privilege of following Tolbert, Woodson and Cheney for their entire IU careers. None of them were anything that had fans anticipating greatness coming out of high school. Good? Sure. Greatness, I really think many of us saw them as good pieces but not All Americans. None of the were raves in the high schools stars rankings. All three are synonymous with “It’s Indiana!”

    DD, I really think we overstress the rankings. We should give them the “for entertainment only” treatment as well. I’m not sure that it’s worth HT budget money to follow them around. On top of it, I think the hype creates an environment that we end up regretting in the long run.

  • Mike B says:

    Just like Cody Zeller polished his post game against his much older brothers, HP will develop greatly practicing against Cody.

  • Mike P. says:


    During the season when IU was rolling, I seen mention of Carlino in a different article and wondered if him and his dad wishes now they would have pulled their head out of the arse, let Matt play out his senior year (would have a Indiana 4A Championship Ring) and let him go to IU?

    Personally, after watching him for a year at South, I am glad he isn’t a Hoosier.

  • Tsao,
    Are you saying we shouldn’t follow rankings or we shouldn’t follow recruiting? It doesn’t cost us H-T budget money to look at the rankings. I just put them up for the purposes of discussion. It took me like a minute to do that post. I don’t think they should be looked at as an end-all, be-all, but I don’t think anyone actually thinks that.
    As far as the budget money it takes to cover recruiting the investment is very much worth it just so I have a good idea what Indiana is dealing with when the players get to campus. It helped a lot to have familiarity with the games of Zeller, Etherington and Abell and considering how much I’m asked about them on live chats, etc., it means a lot that I’ve seen Ferrell, Hollowell, Patterson and Perea all play a lot. What’s great about this gig is that I rarely have to drive past Indianapolis to see these guys, so the H-T budget money required isn’t all that much. The rise of recruiting coverage means that it’s foolish not to cover it, and it’s even more foolish if you can do so much coverage without driving more than an hour.
    And yes, HC, I’ll see you in Fort Wayne next week.

  • Laffy says:

    I’m very glad you watch the recruits and tell us your thoughts on them.

    In fact, I wish there was more of it.

  • Chet says:

    I enjoy them, too. It’s up to the reader to decide their veracity. Murray State was ranked above us most of the year but I don’t think anyone with a lick of sense thought they could actually beat us.

  • DCDave says:


    Tolbert was a McDonalds All American and was very highly thought of out of HS.

    Calbert was lower ranked, than some of the other recruits (which included burger boys), but he was still a top 60 recruit.

    Not sure about Woodsen.

  • Obviously, the coverage dynamic is a lot different than it was then, and more than anything else, that’s a function of the free market. Scores of reporters/talent evaluators make their living on recruiting websites now because the birth of the internet created an entirely untapped market and it was seized upon. If the internet operated at this level in 1989, you would have known much, much more about Calbert Cheaney as a high schooler than you do about Jeremy Hollowell.

  • MarkMe says:

    I like so many of the comments Ive read here regarding the ranking of players. Tolbert was VERY highly regarded coming out of h.s. (there were no rankings in ’77). Woodsen was as well but Knight pushed him so hard Mike just got better each year. Cheaney had a broken arm or leg his junior year in HS. His recruiting class was VERY highly regarded. A friend of mine from Evansville told me that Cal was indeed the sleeper in that class. Understatement of ever! Regarding Perea, I think about Hakeem Olajuwon of Univ of Houston & the Houston Rockets. The guy was a great NBAer with fantastic post moves; but while at the U of H is was an exteremely raw talent. Yet, his teammates always said when asked how good he was, they replied he’s better today than he was yesterday. Maybe Perea is in the same type mold?

  • Cookie says:

    I think we should at least be signing top 80 talent! Especially for the 2013 class. What do you guys think?

  • coachv says:

    we would have a higher ranking if jurkin was ranked. it’s absurd he isn’t. do the people doing the ranking realize he is 7′?. if you only watched him on youtube, you would have to rank him if you knew anything at all about the game. if his body can take the pounding, he’s going to be awesome. he’s gotten so much bigger.

  • TsaoTsuG says:

    Mark Me (and DC Dave) are right about Tolbert, though I don’t think anyone would have set him apart as a ‘can’t miss’ as was the case earlier with Hanner Perea. Woodson and Cheney were certainly really good prospects but neither the stars they became. For all three, the extra ingredient was four years under Bob Knight and his teaching.

    The comparison with Hakeem Olajawon that Mark Me makes is exactly how to frame Hanner at this point. Olajawon improved from week to week at the U. of Houston simply because he wsa immersed in a learning process. Hanner is indeed one of those athletes who come once a decade, but anyone who didn’t know that he was doing what he was doing out of sheer physical talent does not understand the importance of the development process and the key role of a great coach teaching. Better to review the dozens of ‘top 10′ five stars (whatever that means) out there who became rub of the mill ball players. It would be an interesting journalistic project to examine all the top ten players over the last ten years and the ’50+’ (or, if you want to 100+) and compare and contrast their outcomes and the outcomes of the teams they played for in college.

    A great example is in the most ballyhooed high school player to enroll at Indiana before Zeller, Isiah Thomas. The stories and legends that preceded his arrival on campus were unbelievable. But, as his freshman season began his magnitude lessened significantly. Eventually, Knight sat him down and waaaay-down-the bench(most of December and a good part of January of Isiah’s). Knight took Isiah apart in practice and then put him back together as a basketball player- a team basketball player. At the same time, as he did so, he restructured the team around what he saw would be its best game around Isiah’s talent and the team’s considerable other skills.

    Very, very-very important to remember that outside of Zeller, Indiana did not have a single ‘top 100 layer’ (talk about religion!) on a team that proved it was one of the best in the country on the floor. No argument that Zeller made a great contribution, but the contribution of the other 10 players was as important to the team. How much could Creek (the original, which I suspect will be what comes back only better for having learned the game so much) have added to this team?

    It’s unfortunate that basketball (no-have that wrong, that basketball fans) has gone the way of making gods out of individuals. The game of basketball is becoming the victim of the hype that comes from the media, the pundits and the ‘talent wonk/evaluation experts’ who have dug their hands in the game’s pocket. And, way too many collaborate in that expropriation of this once beautiful game.

    I feel comfortable (now) that TC is finding the pieces he needs to put his vision together, whether they are ranked #1, #147, or #174; or none at all. Important to remember thatnone of the ‘talent experts’ work in the main stream of basketball and are self-appointed experts is paid by way of the number of subscribers they attract.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies says:

    The essence of TTG.

  • TsaoTsuG says:

    Cookie, don’t agree. I think we should sign whoever our capable coach wants to bring in given his concept of the game and his assessment of what we have and what we need. Whether it is someone in the top 80, someone who is #83, or someone who is not rated at all (was Abell rated last year?), the choice is TC’s.

    Don’t mean to minimize your thought, but putting restrictions on our coach serves little purpose.

    By the way, how about if he finds a foreign player? I hear there’s a South American guard who dominates the game like Ginobili, defends like Nocioni, scores like Scola and Lou Deng, rebounds like Pau Gasol…and none of them made any top “200” list.

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