Roth still waiting four days before semester

97 comments by   |   Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:28 pm EDT

Before Matt Roth even addressed his own status, he stopped to express his empathy for Ron Patterson.

“I saw the news, which is too bad,” Roth said of Patterson’s academics-based departure from Indiana. “You don’t want to see the academics get in the way of a talented player like that. But it sounds like he’s got a good family around him, and I wish him the best. Academics is really important, and I’m sure he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself to get better there.”

But after that, Roth said that, no, he still hasn’t heard anything definitive about his status with Indiana. The combination of Patterson’s departure and the impending beginning of the fall semester hasn’t brought any more information with it.

The 6-foot-3, 185-pound sharpshooting guard still has a fifth year of eligibility remaining thanks to a broken foot that cost him all but two games of his sophomore season. Patterson’s departure made it appear slightly more likely that he might actually use it, but the Hoosiers are at the NCAA limit of 13 scholarships without him in the fold and Monday’s beginning of the fall semester would appear to represent the clock running out on his return.

Still, Roth said he’s heard nothing definitive one way or the other from Indiana.

“I haven’t been contacted since (the news of Patterson’s departure) and I haven’t been informed of anything involving my status,” Roth said.

Roth was asked if he’d given up hope of a return.

“I’ve not come to that conclusion yet,” he said. “It’s not something I want to have happen until it happens. I know the deadline is coming up. I’m hoping to hear something one way or the other. There’s not going to be any hard feelings one way or the other. I kept my options open and did what’s best for me, but I haven’t found what’s best for me yet. I haven’t found a job that’s the right fit for me.”

Through the first half of the summer, Roth said he was very much keeping his options open and passing up on potential opportunities to play his fifth year at another school — which he can do without penalty — as well as potential employment opportunities. Recently, he has spent more time looking for a job, but hasn’t found one yet.

Roth said he has been in contact with Indiana coach Tom Crean over the summer through text messaging and that he also worked at one of Crean’s summer camps, but that the two have not discussed his status in some time.

“He told me earlier in the summer to keep my options open,” Roth said. “I told him I wasn’t going to put a blindfold on and not look at jobs, not prepare. We both agreed do what’s best for me. Since then it’s just been checking in and seeing how thing are going. There’s been nothing very directly related to the situation. Everybody wants to figure out the final conclusion. We’ve talked back and forth. Hopefully we’re either going to get together or have a final phone call. It’s a business and I’m aware of everything involved.”

If by some chance Roth was asked to return at this point — which appears highly unlikely — it would almost assuredly be as a walk-on. There’s still a chance the Hoosiers could lose a scholarship player before the season starts if guard Maurice Creek doesn’t make a full recovery, but if he doesn’t become a medical non-counter by Monday, he will count against Indiana’s limit for the rest of the school year whether he plays or not.

Roth said he wasn’t sure what he would do if presented with that option.He already has a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree, so he would have to enroll for either another master’s or a doctorate to continue his education. Exactly how much that would cost is difficult to calculate, but the Illinois native’s out-of-state status would presumably make it more expensive.

“It would be tough to do,” Roth said. “It’s tough financially, I’m aware of the value of money and the difficulties that would come with taking out a loan and everything. I’m not sure how the process would work being injured on scholarship and playing not on scholarship. I’d need help from some people in compliance to see if that’s even possible. That would be a long process, and it’s not something that I’ve thought about.”

 

Share the Scoop!

Related content: Read more in Men's Basketball
 
Big Ten Network to broadcast 17 Indiana basketball games
Guyton writes open letter to Knight, asks him to return to IU
Guyton, Ogunleye headline latest IU Hall of Fame class
Juwan Morgan commits to Indiana
Resources for tonight's Juwan Morgan commitment
97 comments:
#1
Debbie
Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:02 PM EDT

Sorry Matt your days at IU are over. Your good coach and buddy Crean has his team set and unfortunately it doesn’t include you. Thanks for all you did at IU and best to you in your future endeavors.

 
#2 Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:43 PM EDT

Get on with your life. You’re starting to border on being annoying.

 
#3 Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:06 PM EDT

In his defense, Aruss, I called him to find out what was up. It’s not like he staged a press conference.

 
#4
Geoff
Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:35 PM EDT

Maybe he meant Debbie… Although I know you can’t speculate on that Dustin.

 
#5 Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:43 PM EDT

I hadn’t thought about that. I guess it could be either.

 
#6
coachv
Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 11:02 PM EDT

apuss and debbie can go suck it. matt roth is a class act.

 
#7
Wisconsin owns Indiana
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 2:18 AM EDT

Typical tom crean..

 
#8
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:41 AM EDT

I knew it! This was my suspicion all along…Here is your walk-on that took Matt Roth’s only chance to be on the roster(and he won’t even play this year due to transfer rules). You just weren’t Christian enough, Matt.

Check out Jonny’s Twitter page…It’s even heavier in biblical references than Tom Crean’s.

Jonny Marlin ‏@JonnyMarlin

Nothing ahead of you is bigger or stronger than the power of God behind you.

 
#9
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:52 AM EDT

You don’t call Matt Roth, but you find a walk-on spot for transfer from IPFW…? Wow…just..wow.

 
#10
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:13 AM EDT

Is it just me…?

 
#11
Wang Wang
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:49 AM EDT

Yes.

(Your comment was a bit too short. Please go back and try again.)

 
#12
Wai He So Tan?
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 7:00 AM EDT

^ No.         

 
#13
Chet
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 7:58 AM EDT

It never bothered me as a kid but that hymn really gives me the creeps now.

 
#14
Rick
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 9:35 AM EDT

Matt Roth was exciting to watch, those games where you just needed a pump, well he was there. I never saw him force a shot and he always played team ball. He was great for IU and I wish him the best.

 
#15
Kelvin Sampson
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:02 AM EDT

I read this as “Maurice Creek’s recovery is still up in the air.” If Mo was clearly going to play this year, Crean would have let Roth go. If Mo was clearly out for the year, Crean would have called Roth in.

I am a bit surprised that Roth hasn’t used the graduate transfer exception to go to a smaller school and continue to get a free education. Roth could really help a MAC or Horizon League school.

 
#16
guest
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:10 AM EDT

Um, yeah, if Aruss’ comment was directed at Roth, that’s way out of line. Matt Roth has done more for IU in his five years than 99% do in 50 years and he’s handled this situation with complete class.

And, to be honest, I’m not sure I can say the same about the way IU and Coach Crean have handled this situation. That’s not quite correct. I can absolutely say that IU and Crean have not handled this situation with complete class or integrity.

 
#17
Chet
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:25 AM EDT

Based upon what you know.

I keep reading all these posts by people who are coming to conclusions as if they know all the details. Then the go on to determine the character of the people involved based upon…well…pretty much nothing.

When this all settles out and everything turns out to be above board not a soul will post an apology for the character assassinations.

They never do.

 
#18 Friday, August 17, 2012 - 11:19 AM EDT

Jonny Marlin isn’t on scholarship and his presence doesn’t have anything to do with the decision on Roth. (And to quell the conspiracy perhaps a little, Roth is pretty Christian)

 
#19
Abe Froman
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:25 PM EDT

“I keep reading all these posts by people who are coming to conclusions as if they know all the details. Then the go on to determine the character of the people involved based upon…well…pretty much nothing.”

You have to be kidding… Tom Crean has been doing this type of thing an basically a yearly basis for the last decade+. You are either retarded or a complete homer if you can’t draw a conclusion from that much information.

 
#20
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:39 PM EDT

…and after Mo’s injuries along with how the GMM, Lyles and Patterson commitments have worked out it is a damn good thing Coach Crean goes about his business covering all the bases in the manner he does…GO Coach…

 
#21
Coach Norman Dale
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:56 PM EDT

A lot of you remind me of the local residents of Hickory…the ones that tried to tell me how to run my practices, and what kind of defense I needed to employ, etc….even though they were barbers, and policemen, and farmers….all noble lines of work to be sure, but it’s got nothing to do with running a basketball program.

I guess it’s good for entertainment value, but until anyone here actually runs a storied D1 program, it will be difficult to see all of the sniping as anything more than that.

 
#22
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 1:03 PM EDT

Isn’t there a maximum number of players that can be on a roster? Jonny Marlin’s addition puts the Hoosiers at 17 total.

Who would strengthen our team more? Who would you rather have on the team as a walk-on? The 2nd best 3-point shooter in the nation or a transfer walk-on, a poor man’s Jordy Hulls, that the NCAA prohibits from playing this year?

Come on, Dustin. You know why Jonny Marlin is on the roster. No Ron Patterson, but we can make room for Jonny Marlin. What else could Crean do? Cut a A-Hope kid? Destroy the chance to convert kids from Africa into Christians? Or do we cut a kid we watched blow out his knees? Cutting Creek would have looked like kicking Tiny Tim out of a Dickens’ Christmas Carol goose dinner. So where is the point of least resistance to invent a reason to get your ass out of the scholarship bind?…Easy. Force out a Broad Ripple kid on the eve of his college classes beginning(We found out late in the game that he’s nothing more than a Sampson-type kid; a baller, but, unfortunately, a product of a crappy Indy public high school that is simply not worth the gamble)…Hold onto your holier-than-thou Hoosier butt cheeks. Same time we’re putting Patterson on the bus(pun intended), Jonny is pulling up to campus in his chariot and whisked quickly to the Hall to pose for his official roster photo. Here’ssssssss JONNY….Goodbyyyyyyyyyyyyye, RONNY.

 
#23 Friday, August 17, 2012 - 1:47 PM EDT

I’m just saying Matt Roth Or Johnny Marlin was not an either-or proposition. Neither was Marlin or Patterson. Because Marlin isn’t on scholarship. If roster size was the issue (it isn’t, scholarships are the issue) they could move off somebody like Raphael Smith or Taylor Wayer. You can disagree with Crean on the treatment of Roth and Patterson all you want, but the fact is Jonny Marlin has nothing to do with this issue whatsoever because — one more time- Jonny Marlin isn’t on scholarship.

 
#24 Friday, August 17, 2012 - 2:02 PM EDT

*My comment was directed to Debbie.

Everyone should know I’m one of the most respectful commentors on this blog.

 
#25
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 2:26 PM EDT

I don’t think it’s spelled with the ‘h.’ You don’t know that it wasn’t and either-or proposition. Maybe Crean had a set number in his mind for the roster(walk-ons + scholarships)and he had already decided Marlin over Roth for the final walk-on spot. If he puts Roth on scholarship to let him finish his eligibility, how does it look to cut Creek out of the picture while putting a kid like Marlin on the bench? Do you honestly believe Creek will recover to a level needed to play at the highest level the college game? It’s all about putting as many Christians on the bench he can while still protecting his holier-than-thou hypocrite ass. There is a certain perception from the fans that Crean is highly aware when he’s making these decisions. No Patterson and no Creek with Roth(scholarship) and Marlin sitting at the end of the bench? Only room for one slow white choir boy even slower than “the worst defender in all of college basketball.” These decisions are all intertwined and Crean is as piously calculating as they get.

And isn’t there still a certain expense to the university to put a walk-on on the team? Is there not a normal cutoff point? I’m just asking..What’s the norm for a total number on a Big 10 team?

 
#26
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 2:54 PM EDT

Total # off players listed on Big 10 Basketball Rosters:

Indiana (2012-13) 17* (*without adding Roth).
Iowa(2011-12) 17
Michigan(2011-12) 16
MSU(2011-12) 16
Wisconsin(2012-13) 16
Northwestern(2012-13) 15
Minnesota(2012-13) 15
Illinois(2012-13) 14
Purdue(2012-13) 14
Nebraska(2012-13) 8
Penn State(2012-13) 13
OSU(4/16/2012) 11

Taking out Nebraska(strangely low) into figuring the average comes up with this figure for an average roster size: 164/11 = 15

Conclusion: Crean chose to fill an already ballooned-out roster with Marlin as his final walk-on rather than even put it on the table for a the 2nd most accurate 3-point shooting guard in the nation.

 
#27
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 3:10 PM EDT

Crean is the coach..It’s his decisions to make.

-We keep paying for a scholarship for a 22-year-old that remains forever a question mark with his ability to recover from two devastating knee injuries.

-We don’t take a chance on a freshman with passing high school grades and adequate SAT scores because we forced him into summer school and he had a tough time with the initial adjustment. We don’t give him a chance at a fall term..We just cast him to the wind on the eve of the deadline.

-We put a walk-on transfer on the team that will just ride pine and utter bible slogans.

-We leave Roth, a prolific net-burner available to make our team deeper and more dangerous from the perimeter, sitting next to his phone for four months.

Yup…All makes sense to me.

 
#28
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 3:28 PM EDT

We lost what could have been one of the most in-your-face defenders in the Big 10, allow him a chance on his getting up to speed with the demands of the classroom, in favor of going with the better odds a 22-year-old that will likely use the rest his college days watching from the sideline because of a hard reality his knees are not able to take the load of the intense nature his sport?

We left the 2nd most lethal outside scorer in college basketball away from a walk-on position in favor of a kid that can’t let his angelic toes touch McCracken until the 1013-14 season?

We exchanged a one-of-a-kind defender(with a very strong offensive game) and a one-of-a-kind 3-pt shooter for two guys that will never get out of their chairs except for timeouts?

Yup, makes sense to me.

 
#29
Wheres_SteveHart
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:25 PM EDT

@Harvard: SHUT UP ALREADY!
If you’re so tired of CTC and his approach – in running the team &/or living his life – go follow a different squad. Your schtick gets old. Bash some other belief system that doesn’t make you comfortable or totally synchronize with your world view.

I’m sure you’ll call it naive, but sometimes – every once in a while – the simplest explanation is the easiest. Roth had his time, Creek deserves some return on his investment, Patterson didn’t qualify, and Jonny is TBD.

Mix in some positive; enjoy IU basketball for the sport of it. And please, give us all a break from your redundant, anti-Christian, hate-filled monologues.

(@Debbie: You can use to stick it too.)

 
#30
Geoff
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:41 PM EDT

Harvard – your starting to spin off the tracks…

I’d say wheres_stevehart’s 2nd paragraph pretty much sums it up.

 
#31
TsaoTsuG
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:44 PM EDT

Following is a link to an article that does a good job clarifying the NCAA rules regarding eligibility, grades and other issues. What did I learn? It is not as easy as merely looking at a base GPA predictor. The rules recently revised (2011 I believe) do have some strong almost immediate consequences for athletes who are not making legitimate progress towards graduation. For those who did not know, 2.0 will no longer be the GPA predictor; it will be 2.3 (and is likely on its way to 2.5).(My opinion, very good…as it should be).

Athletes on scholarship will be expected to maintain a 2.5 GPA (this may have been the concern with RP) after his summer grades were reviewed. In other words, while he qualified (under the old requirement) for admission and eligibility, his summer grades may have raised serious questions regarding his eligibility after the first semester (his second if you count summer school) at Christmas. The point, this is a decision best left to academic professionals, not coaches or fans.

The rules also have a heavy emphasis on English, math and science (even summer courses monitored are channeled into developing adequate fundamental academic skills in these areas and will heavily limit the practice of leaving ‘required’ courses for the senior year as many schools irresponsibly do. These new rules and gradual tightening absolutely justify an oversight board such as the Athletic Academic Eligibility group that recently reviewed Ron Patterson’s summer performance and denied him admission to Indiana as a regular student and an eligible athlete unless he took steps towards shoring up his own deficiencies.

In all fairness, the article was also very, very interesting for another reason. The NCAA now has a practice (do not know if it is new or not) of granting ‘Academic Red-Shirting’; in other words admitting a student-athlete as an athletic scholarship student, allowing him to participate in practices but not play until he can be predicted for the 2.5 GPA the NCAA requires (or will require almost immediately). I am not clear that Tom Crean could have, should have taken this route with Patterson. I do believe that going the Academic Red-shirting route would have allowed Patterson four full years of participation. Not sure if the scholarship would then have counted against against Indiana’s total allowable scholarship players in 2012. I do think this is a question that should be asked of Crean and A.D. Glass.

This is the link; it also has other very, very valuable information:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/10/28/ncaa-board-approves-athletic-eligibility-rules-division-i-athletes#ixzz23puhNlxHInside Higher Ed

 
#32
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:44 PM EDT

Free country, my friend. I have been a fan of Indiana basketball long before this charlatan preacher came to town. If it sends the right message to you, then swallow the hypocritical holier-than-thou sh*t before you smell it. I have a right to my opinion and these last few weeks have been an ugly chapter on a university I always thought represented something worth defending. Not today. It is not the “norm” to do this to kids that put their trust in Indiana and I will not shut up because you are in denial for being so used to stench of unethical behavior drifting into your arrogant prick nose.

 
#33
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 4:49 PM EDT

Screw you, Geoff. Defend this crap all you want. It’s not right.

 
#34
Wheres_SteveHart
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:09 PM EDT

Sure, free country. My invitation for you to end the redundancy and negativism OVER A SPORTS TEAM is not a suppression of your rights, but rather a plea for you to use your freedom in more creative and positive ways. Or don’t, I respect your freedom either way. Just like I’m free to tell you that you sound like a broken record devoid of original, respectful thought. (Unless respect and tolerance are granted by you to all groups other than Christians?)

Go ahead and judge CTC (and me), b/c in so doing – like resorting to name calling (“holier-than-thou”, “hypocrite”, and “prick”) – you paint yourself with the same brush. Or maybe I missed the memo and your belief system grants you authority to be judge over others.

Again, follow some team that conforms exactly to what you believe and lives up to your self-righteous standards. I’ll try not to miss your “contributions” too much. Or continue to follow IU with all the cynicism and judgment that seems to bring you such joy (regardless of how others feel); it seems to bring you a warped sense of fulfillment… good for you. Like you said, it’s a free country, even for those who pretend to be judge over all else.

 
#35
Chris
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:15 PM EDT

Harvard, you are entitled to your opinion, but unless you have proof, why are you digging so deep? That bored, are you one of those conspiracy theory types? I for one do not like the over the top religious stuff..drives me nuts! As a couple other folks stated, the answers could be very logical and simple. Also, I am sure there are no other schools over-recruiting, right? I hate to see Matt Roth go, and again you are entitled to your opinion, but why spin the wheels so hard?

 
#36
Corinthians 11:14
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:27 PM EDT

^ Why not. Crean couldn’t care less, “busy” as he is with Dwyane Wade’s fantasy camp. “ Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. ” (Galatians 6:7)

 
#37
Cameron Thomaz
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:30 PM EDT

Haven’t read everything Harvard wrote but he is right from the stand point that there is more to this story than we know. That’s how it always is. People who read a press release and assume that is the whole story are kidding themselves. Could even be something where IU did Buss a favor and Buss did IU a favor. The dude left his ‘loaded’ AAU team and didn’t miss a beat last year, this isn’t the first time he started something and then moved on awhile later. IU looked at their situation and Buss looked at his, they parted ways and now Buss will go somewhere else where he’ll get major minutes earlier than he would’ve at IU. And IU doesn’t have to worry about the scholarship situation…Roth will show up on some FCA roster and play exhibition games somewhere soon…

 
#38
FireCrean2012
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:31 PM EDT

If you’re so tired of CTC and his approach – in running the team &/or living his life – go follow a different squad.

Crean would never resign. He needs to be fired. Soon.

 
#39
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:33 PM EDT

I’m done with logical. It is Tom Crean that isn’t satisfied with his quiet persona. He is the one that must bottle himself and sell it to the masses. Some of us recognize the greasiness of it all in the context of how he enjoys painting teenagers as academic failures instead of admitting he screwed up by offering too many scholarships. He’s the guy stalking 14-year-old children with a Bible and a “miss you a whole lot” wet dream to play a silly game of hoops.

Yes, I am the one that remains lost of perspective, the untrue Indiana fan, while the rest(or, most of the rest)live in your Pollyanna wonderland because a #1 ranked team and a banner means preciously more than your common decency or your word. My faith is then word, not in the book. And Tom Crean has absolutely nothing to do with my faith in Indiana one day waking up to this fraud.

 
#40
Cameron Thomaz
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:35 PM EDT

lol FC2012 haha…why does Crean ‘need to be fired’ ? hahahaha haha

 
#41
Cameron Thomaz
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:38 PM EDT

Harvard I admire your thoughts because they are more accurate than most others. However, your biggest mistake is your belief/hope that there is something magical or Rudy-esque about college sports. Sadly there is not. You could realize that college sports are all about 1 thing: MONEY. And that will answer all your questions. Any other thing is completely misguided. Money makers make money. Crean is a money maker. IU is a money maker. They don’t care about over half of the stuff you hold so dear or dream.

 
#42
TsaoTsuG
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 5:41 PM EDT

There are two issues here. How Ron Patterson performed in summer school, the Athletic Academic Advisory council which I hoe would have significant clout with all IU student athletes and their status.

I absolutely agree with ‘Guest’ (#16, par. 2) and with Harvard’s general point that the issue about Roth and Cheek is cause for great concern for those of us who see deeply disturbing issues involved if Roth, Creek and any other player on the team is ‘shorted’ off the program without legitimate cause. (i.e. Academic failure, an act that brings embarrassment to the team, a failure to accept team rules or discipline, a grievous act of a personal nature…a crime). Above all (in its intercollegiate athletics programs), Indiana needs to stand behind its reputation for integrity.

Second, Crean’s philosophy and role in recruiting and offering scholarships. Preferably, Crean needs to reconsider his recruiting ‘modus operandi’. I have serious questions about asking for commitments from a) children under 16/ or h.s. sophomores; b) offering scholarships to student-athlete prospects when it is not clear they will be eligible (unless it is under the NCAA Academic Red-shirt rule and c) getting involved in a scholarship crap shoot that may end up taking a scholarship back from a current player who has eligibility remaining and/or been injured during the tenure of his scholarship thus extending his eligibility.

 
#43
KevinK
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:08 PM EDT

Thank you Steve Hart.

 
#44
Geoff
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:11 PM EDT

Tsao – it’s still fairly unclear whether Roth feels “shorted”. I just read an article by Dustin that didn’t include that emotion.

I am not against your recruiting philosophy. I just don’t think it’s terribly practical. Overly ethical, but impractical. That being said, I can’t put it down.

My question is for Part C. What would you do when it’s April and you have commitments from 3 players to fill 3 spots for outgoing seniors, but then 2 players declare for the NBA draft? At this point there are only 2 types of recruits generally left – one-and-dones looking to see where they can fit in based on early-entrants into the draft or guys that are academically sketchy and seeing if they will qualify or need a prep year. I guess you could also loom to the JuCo ranks. So what do you do in that situation Tsao? It’s a very likely scenario for a successful program.

 
#45
vgBMG
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:30 PM EDT

Dustin—One point that needs to be clarified about Matt
Roth’s situation. Was he ever denied the
opportunity to become a paying walk-on for
the 2013/2013 season? I have never seen any info
covering this scenario.

 
#46
Ron
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:37 PM EDT

Yo Dustin. whats going on with this board? Some of the stories have 15 comments and I can only see two, on a new format. Depending what story I’m looking at the “recent” comments” are different…???

I’m old. don’t confuse me..

 
#47
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:50 PM EDT

HfH posts are like having the same leftovers 6 nights in a row.

 
#48
Podunker
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 6:52 PM EDT

HC, that was a brilliant analogy.

 
#49
Wheres_SteveHart
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 7:08 PM EDT

More name calling? HH, I suspect that in your heart of hearts you are bigger than that. I’d certainly like our micro- (and macro-) society to be able to rise above that.

I’ll try a different angle:
In light of your self-assured greatness and authority, HH, what paragon of moral uprightness would you – in all your wisdom and long standing fandom – deem worthy of coaching our beloved Hoosiers?

For the sake of your peace and the enjoyment of this board, I hope that person has never made any kind of mistake (real or perceived) lest tour self-righteous and verbose wrath be cast upon him (or her). I also hope that your Appointed believes only that which you have faith in (if that is anything other than self), so as not to stir your jealous zeal.

It’s easy to complain about those figures in positions of authority. It’s quite a bit more difficult to find and foster peace in spite of them.

(Perspective Moment)
It Is A GAME, played and coached by imperfect people. If the GAME’S entertainment value is gone for you due to a coach that others appreciate but you find unappealing, do yourself and others a favor and preserve your peace without invading ours. Your self-righteousness and prideful prose would fit right in at Michigan.

 
#50
Mike B
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 7:20 PM EDT

I don’t know if I’d call him pretty, Dustin. Suave, maybe :-)

 
#51
Wheres_SteveAlford
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 9:30 PM EDT

We need Steve Alford. Indiana needs a Hoosier coach.

 
#52
IndiANNA
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 9:59 PM EDT

What is this, Hoosiers bashing Hoosiers? C’mon everyone. It’s bad enough to read how UK fans talk about us, but we shouldn’t turn on each other.

I have loved Indiana University since I was a toddler running through Dunn Meadow toward my dad as he finished up his Master’s Degree. I was there in “81, and both my kids just graduated from IU, and I am finishing up my IU graduate degree. Hoosier Nation-UNITE! What a fantastic season we have in front of us! The only thing I would add is that when we win our next national championship, if you are not on board with Tom Crean, it would be hypocritical to rejoice in that victory.

 
#53
Geoff
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:24 PM EDT

Believe it or not Anna, there are some people that seem to honestly believe that of we win a championship this year it will be under an unethical coach and screwy value system. While I’m sure in the moment they’ll rejoice, right now they are too bored to think that far in the future.

 
#54
Wheres_SteveAlford
Friday, August 17, 2012 - 11:32 PM EDT

You need Major, Major Happenstance for a Tom Crean team to ever win a National Championship — the inevitable entertainment notwithstanding.

 
#55
Lord of Visual
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 4:26 AM EDT

A rare look at Harvard while visiting Crean’s Twitter page.

 
#56
Chet
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 8:16 AM EDT

It’s interesting. Although, during his latter years he certainly fostered divisiveness, during the same point in his Indiana career Bobby Knight was somehow the recipient of slavish loyalty among fans. Yet a relatively innocuous, upbeat kinda guy like Tom Crean has people calling for his head despite impressive success.

Go figure.

 
#57
... will get burnt.
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 10:09 AM EDT

Replace “innocuous” with unctuous above and you’re getting closer to the truth.

Third on the list, behind Calipari.

He who plays with fire…

 
#58
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 2:41 PM EDT

Chet, who’s calling for Crean’s head? Some, including me, have questioned the wisdom and recruiting ethics of asking and accepting commitments from children under 16. We’ve also questioned the wisdom behind the policy of offering more scholarships than IU has available. Some (including me) have asked that both policies be reviewed and given more consideration since we don’t our Hoosiers to be addressed on the same plain as Kentucky and/or Calipari. We do want a nationally successful program known for its competitiveness and integrity.

As for Knight, many of us (including me) respect, admire and identify with a program that was above reproach in terms of NCAA rules, in terms of reflecting academic integrity and priorities leading to basketball becoming an integral part of the University community. Many of those who felt this way also questioned and were concerned with Coach Knight’s self control and sideline demeanor, but continue to be proud of its stature and continue to use it as a standard. I agree with those.

generally, IU earned its reputation and was held up as a model of what intercollegiate athletics should be about…students pursuing degrees and education and doing so by representing their university in athletic competition honorably.

 
#59
Chet
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 3:28 PM EDT

TTG, scan back through the posts. You’ll find plenty of axe men. No reasonable arguments but lots of executioners.

 
#60
Chet
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 3:32 PM EDT

…will get burnt. You must not have read the article you linked to. On Crean and the rules the author writes, “And he will never break one.”

Thanks for posting such a show of confidence in CTC.

 
#61
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 4:25 PM EDT

Chet, …yeah, you have a point (just took a look back). I read some posters with more attention; others, by the fifth word I get the idea they are simply expectorating whatever phlegm is choking them that day (i often skip the rest of that post because it says nothing) and some I have followed a long time because they seem like decent people, truly interested (even when they point out that I may be serious nuts because of my convictions or the fact that I enjoy writing in whole, elaborated (conversation style) thought–don’t use Twitter,-nor will I ever, all you can do is f__rt and often in bad grammar). And, there are some who do a great commentary with one liners-you are one of them- but then they can also elaborate a solid argument. (Others, desperately want to be Howard Cosell…and won’t spend the money for the hairpiece).

What’s interesting is that, after nearly two years, I consider several as friends, good friends. It bothers me when I sense them struggling and it’s important to me that they always, always get my attention, …even when we are arguing or in the middle of a bar fight (HlH is one such friend…IOW, good people). Since we are on the subject, I have one fundamental belief about athletic teams; you can’t have a good one without having good people who like each other.

 
#62
Harvo45
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 7:02 PM EDT

You can’t fix stupid, but you can ignore it. so HH i won’t be reading any more of your posts.

 
#63
... will get burnt.
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 7:25 PM EDT

The quote is by an anonymous coach not by the author. On Calipari it says: “Everyone says that he cheats but when was he caught?” It follows that Calipari is just a smarter Crean either way if Crean is clean it’s still as I said: he who plays with fire will soon get burnt. Crean has made a few mistakes already: Guy-Marc Michel, the creepy tweet, Gary Harris, Trey Lyles, Patterson and the way he treated people like Bawa, Malik Story, Nick Williams and now Matt Roth.

Unctuous Cream.

 
#64
... will get burnt.
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 7:43 PM EDT

^ Not to mention the A-HOPE AAU issue from last year: after Drew Adams, the son of Mark Adams (Indiana Elite coach), was promoted to director of operations/video coordinator in April 2010, Crean signed or picked up commitments from eight players with ties to A-HOPE and/or the Indiana Elite program.

[Insert biblical quote here.]

 
#65
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 7:55 PM EDT

Bell’s Oberon…Have any of you tried it? Good beer out of Comstock, Michigan.

Tsao- Thank you for the kind words.

 
#66
Hoosier Clarion
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 8:43 PM EDT

Some people enjoy the toys in their heads.

 
#67
Chet
Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 8:46 PM EDT

Harvard, we’ve become quite the mecca for ‘beer tourism’. Besides a ton of microbreweries both Sierra Nevada and New Belgium(Fat Tire Ale, among others) are building breweries in town. We’ve edged out Portland, OR, the past three years in the voting for ‘Beer City’.

Naturally, the fundamentalists are simply delighted by the honor.

 
#68
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 12:33 AM EDT

Tsao – please read my post #44. You bring up the point I asked you about in your post #58, but not with any type of solution.

It’s an honest question and not an attack…

 
#69
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 1:23 AM EDT

I’m not really the beer connoisseur.. I tried the Bell’s Oberon during a rare dinner at a nice seafood and steak restaurant(they had it available on draught). It’s a deep golden ale that reminded me a lot of another micro brew beer, Sun King’s Cream Ale(brewed in downtown Indy), that I’ve also gone astray for brief affair, an interlude of sorts where I attempt to break away from the world of $5.99 6-packs in 16oz. tall cans, a few outings of rendezvouses with a bit more complex and sexier blonds than stable and smooth pedestrian Budweiser lifestyle the uncomplicated Harvard.

After having a couple pints the Bell’s Oberon last night, I decided to visit wine & beer store near my house that stocks quite a wide variety in micro brews. They had the Oberon…bright cheerful looking bottle with a drawing of the sun(made me initially think it was the other maker I had a long summer fling: Sun King beer).I chatted a few words with the gentlemen ringing up my sale and he told me Bell’s Oberon was one of his favorite beers.

Your an awfully unique person, Chet. You’re an awfully kind person as well. You never shut crazy old Harvard out even when he “spins off the tracks.” I shall pop open the next Oberon in honor your faith in mankind and your staying true to what only matters: your golden heart.

 
#70
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 1:41 AM EDT

I don’t shut you out either Harvard, just try to bring it to your attention.

Maybe you can give me an answer to my question in post #44…

 
#71
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 1:47 AM EDT

oops.

You’re an awfully unique person.

gentle[man] ringing up my sale.

______________________

Geoff-

Your scenario from post #44..You don’t think you could find a JC player or guy that just had a change of heart? Is it frequent that two guys from the same team will declare for the NBA unexpectedly?

I noticed two or three Big 10 schools that were still shy of 15 players on their posted 2012-13 rosters. Can’t it almost be an advantage to have an opening available heading into summer? Isn’t that how we picked up Remy(of course, Capobianco’s transfer also made it possible)after he decided against Bradley due to a coaching change? I’ve heard nothing of Remy being an academic risk.

Crean does seem to have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough..Almost seems to his advantage to utilize that skill and attempt to leave himself room to maneuver rather than oversign.

 
#72
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 1:55 AM EDT

Though not pursued late in the recruiting game, am I mistaken to say that D-Wade was painted by many as an academic risk? Does Marquette have lower academic standards than the secret society of faculty members at IU? Was Al McGuire not one hell of a coach…and very unique man? He never gave up on young men from hard streets.

 
#73
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 2:13 AM EDT

Yeah, I think it’s pretty tough to judge who will be a one-and-done or a two-and-done, etc. there are some obvious choices, but then there are guys like Perry Jones who everyone thought was going after his freshman season, but he waited a year. How many people really thought Mike Conley would be a one-and-done?

It’s yet to be seen what kind of contributor Abell will be, but I think most fans would rather have Semi or Anya, which are the guys we are looking at with the oversign for next year.

JuCo is an interesting option, but most of the best players at that level will be taken as well…

 
#74
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 2:22 AM EDT

The most obvious (and relevant) scenario for #44 is with IU this year…

Can you tell me with any certainty what Dipo and Zeller are going to do?

Neither, one, or both could declare for the draft. I wouldn’t be surprised by any outcome.

So under Tsao’s Guide to Ethical Recruiting we cannot assume they will and therefore we cannot recruit for their spots. What happens if both go? It would be near impossible to find someone that met IU’s talent-level and academic level, much less 2. The ones who may meet both could very well only be interested in going the one-and-done route… Is that who Tsao wants more of in the program?

 
#75
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 8:41 AM EDT

I noticed we avoided the Wade question. Was he not an academic risk?

Wade was recruited by only three college basketball teams (Marquette University, Illinois State, and DePaul University) due to academic problems.(courtesy:Wikipedia)

Would D-Wade get cut after a rough start in summer school?

 
#76
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 9:15 AM EDT

There is no Wade Q for IU. Nor an RP Q.

 
#77
Chet
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 9:38 AM EDT

Harvard, unfortunately I am no longer a beer drinking man, myself. Before I gave it up I had switched over to the local choices, though. I keep a selection of the city’s fairs in the rec room fridge for visitors to partake.

When I had to go on blood pressure medicine despite being only 40, very active, and pretty close to my ideal weight I figured it was God’s (or Buddha’s or whathaveyou) way of telling me my beer drinking days were over. Maybe 2 a year cross my lips.

Oddly, not long after, my wife developed some sort of allergy to something in most alcoholic drinks (tannins?). Anything other than vodka gives her nasty headaches. That’s what she tells me, anyway. Anything she drinks looks like it came from the bar on the Love Boat, sans umbrella.

I still enjoy a bourbon on the rocks before bed. No more drinking when it’s daylight for ol’ Chet.

 
#78
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 11:26 AM EDT

I don’t know enough about the Wade recruitment situation. It was 12 year ago. It also was at another university with different standards and policies. He was an academic risk and he was rated outside of the top 100. Then he went Prop 48 and missed his freshman season.

My guess is that Wade wouldn’t have ever made it onto the IU campus for summer classes. If he had, my guess is that the subcommittee would have “Bussed” him out of town. I am not sure if you are insinuating that he would have received preferential treatment due to his stature, but I would disagree with that because he was never a high-profile recruit and his ability to contribute to the program was complete conjecture at that time.

So my answer is not only would Wade have been cut, but it barely would have been noticed. Kinda like if Remy had got here and struggled last summer. A low-profile, out-of-state recruit doesn’t move the passion needle too much for IU fans.

 
#79
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 2:30 PM EDT

Guess you never read any of my posts 6 months before Remy was even in an IU uniform. Then again, I suppose I’m not the typical IU fan. My “passion needle” was pretty high on that kid. I think Crean finally offered due to Harvard posts on Scoop. Dustin can attest….

‘Remy Remix’ forever.

 
#80
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 2:42 PM EDT

Yeah, I’m talking about the fan-base as a whole. You were loud, but you were essentially on an island.

I stand behind my statement that the VAST majority of IU fans would rather oversign with a kid like Semi or Anya or Lee who are top 50 recruits then wait to see what happens and take a chance on a kid like Remy, who may or may not be around, and who may or may not ever become a regular contributor.

 
#81
Chet
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 3:05 PM EDT

I’ve gotta give give Harvard credit, he has paddled against the stream on more than one occasion and ended up being spot on. If I was a betting man (I’m not) I would not dismiss his prognostications out of hand.

 
#82
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 3:08 PM EDT

He hadn’t made a prognostication here… We are just spit-ballin’

You are certainly right though Chet.

 
#83
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 3:39 PM EDT

I’m still getting a weird vibe on Roth….I’m not completely positive that he is kaput as a Hoosier.

Thanks Chet. Geoff has very little faith in Harvard. 22 wins. Top 10 ranking by mid-December…NCAA berth..Remy’s stepping up once he was given PT(an awfully lot of spitballs)…Watford’s redemption(Clarion? ESPY? Ship has sailed?)… Victory against UK @ Assembly.

Could TC be calling Roth at this very moment?

 
#84
Chet
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 3:45 PM EDT

What are Matt’s degrees in?

 
#85
Geoff
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 5:45 PM EDT

Faith in what… You aren’t making any predictions. We are talking about hypotheticals and history. I asked you to make a prediction about Dipo and Zeller and you didn’t… Although it was somewhat of a rhetorical question.

 
#86 Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 6:00 PM EDT

What are Matt’s degrees in?

Fahrenheit and Celsius.

 
#87 Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 6:01 PM EDT

Silly.     

 
#88 Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 6:28 PM EDT

Tom Crean is the best coach ever.

 
#89
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 6:47 PM EDT

For the 1st 8 games of the season the ship was sailing w/o CW as he scored in double digits only 3 times. Against very weak opposition. It was fortunate for him and IU the light bulb came on when it did and he started playing smarter and harder. I would hope this year that is a learning curve he will not have to overcome again.

 
#90
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 8:13 PM EDT

We’ve been through this, Clarion. He was coming off a foot injury. Harvard predicted he would be a huge factor going down the stretch and never lost faith in his abilities.

He basically defined our entire resurgence with the clutch shot against UK. Who’s to say what happens the rest of the season without that jolt of instantaneous energy and momentum symbolically restoring the faith in IU’s return to relevancy…? It’s very likely that the entire reason we were seeded into the same region as UK during the NCAA tournament was because of the shocking upset at Assembly. The committee knew that all eyes would be on the potential rematch. I guess that was the pro and con of the shot falling. If it doesn’t fall, and UK remains undefeated into the tourament, the Hoosiers are likely put in a different region and we may cruise into the Final Four with the chip on our shoulder.

I honestly believe we were the second best team(especially in terms of chemistry and jelling at the right time) remaining in the Sweet 16. I think we would have had a much better chance at knocking off UK in a Final Four match-up..We would have been the team that wasn’t supposed to be there. We would have been the team with something to still prove and looking to even the score. In a Final Four meeting, UK may have gone int with too much confidence and a feisty Hoosier team staying close into the latter stages could have really played into their mindset.

Watford’s buzzer-beater had a ton of implications..It would have been interesting to see how the rest of the season would have played out if we lose that game. In hindsight, it may have been more advantageous if the shot doesn’t fall. If the shot doesn’t fall, their may be a sixth banner already hanging in the Hall. The one loss, the one blemish on UK’s record that came in Bloomington, gave Calipari a ton of locker room ammunition for pregame inspirational speeches.

 
#91
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 8:27 PM EDT

oops…if the shot doesn’t fall, there may be a sixth banner.

Predictions(Zeller and Oladipo):

Zeller will enter the NBA draft after next season. Probably a lock on the #1 pick.

Oladipo will not be an anticipated first round choice and will remain on the Hoosiers for one more season. It’s the questionable jumper that will remain the roadblock.(He’ll likely be a three-and-done).

Yogi may be the guy leaving after one season. I believe he’ll raise a ton of eyebrows(especially if we go deep into the tournament).

 
#92
Ron
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 8:45 PM EDT

OK Geoff, Can I take a shot at post #85?

First Zeller. I think if IU makes the climb up the NCAA mountain next year but does not reach the peak Cody will return for another year. If IU were to reach the peak I think the possibity of his returning another year is lessened but possible…….Number of reasons. I hope he has watched the BIG Ten Icons of earlier this year of Isiah Thomas. Couple of times he makes note that he left IU due to family needs. Toward the end of the interview he mentions that he wished he had not done that. He said his IU time was probably the best time of his life and that he could see himself still involved with IU someway and happy living in B”town. (someone needs to be sure Cody has seen this show). Additionally, have you seen his pictures surrounded by co-eds? His smiles getting bigger. He has to be considered the “big man on campus and is probably enjoying every minute of it. I could be totally wrong but everyone I’ve spoken with who know him in Washington call him and his family very down to earth and level headed. I don’t think even high draft pick would encourage him to give up what he has now…?

Depo. I know nothing of his background and family. If he has the best yeat ever and would “go” in the first round, I could see him leave. On the other hand if he turns into a very important cog in the IU machine and they don’t quite make the peak this year, I could see pride and the challenge of trying again one more year.

Recruitment Questions….. I don’t like to see 8th and 9th
grade kids recrutment and signed, but unless it is outlawed I see no other option. That is the job of the coach, get the best (who qualify) and sign them. It would always be nice to have an open spot but probably not realistic.

And I may just be living in a dream world…?

 
#93
Chet
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 9:33 PM EDT

I can see Cody staying for 4 years, ala Tim Duncan. As a Hoosier kid from an upper middle class home I doubt that whether he makes 50 million instead of 55 million over his career really means that much to him if he has to sacrifice the happiest days of his life for that last 10%. Unlike the CEO sociopaths we read about every day I’m betting Cody has an idea of the concept of ‘enough’.

 
#94
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 9:49 PM EDT

HfH you can dream up all the what-ifs your heart desires. I am just glad he woke up and got his head right.

 
#95
Harvard fir Hillbillies
Monday, August 20, 2012 - 1:10 AM EDT

Tom Crean Aug 17
‏@TomCrean
Happy Birthday to Remy Abell. His spring and summer have been excellent. He will be on the floor making things happen for us.

 
#96
Harvard fir Hillbillies
Monday, August 20, 2012 - 1:43 AM EDT

Coming of a foot injury was not a “what if.”

 
#97
Hoosier Clarion
Monday, August 20, 2012 - 7:06 AM EDT

Don’t be dense. The “what ifs(sss)” where about 98% of post 90 wasting oxygen. In other words drivel. Get it? You can defend his injury for lack of effort. I do not. If he starts out soft as a Sr. Coach Crean has other options this year.

 


RSS feed

Comments

Facebook

Twitter

YouTube

Today @ HoosiersHQ.com

Recent comments on The Scoop



  • W. Golf. Women's Golf Finishes 18th at Cougar Classic - A final round score of 307 put Indiana 18th at the Powerade Cougar Classic in Hanahan, South
  • Softball. Alumni: Update Your Records - All Indiana softball alumni are encouraged to update their contact information so that they can stay in touch with the
  • Crean expected to make Indy swing - Indiana coach Tom Crean is expected in Indianapolis today to check out of number of prospects.
  • Hoosier Newsstand, Sep. 16 - Get the latest articles on Indiana basketball, football and other Hoosier sports of interest in today's
  • BTN to televise 17 IU games for 2014-2015 season -

    The Big Ten Network announced television designations for 17 Indiana games for the upcoming season and also announced that it will show three games on its web-only platform,

  • 2014-2015 Big Ten preview: Top non-conference games -

    With the start of college basketball season on the horizon, we’ll be taking a long look at the conference at large as well as Indiana’s roster over the next month. Today,

  • Q&A: Catching up with Robert Johnson - Indiana freshman Robert Johnson talks improvement at IU, importance of Canada
  • 17 IU basketball games will be on BTN - Seven Indiana basketball games this season will be televised on the Big Ten Network, the BTN announced Tuesday. Check out the
  • The Week Three Opponent Recap
  • B1G BOWL PROJECTIONS: POSTSEASONS ARE OVERRATED