Live Discussion: Michigan State at Indiana

29 comments by   |   Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 12:11 pm EDT

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29 comments:
#1
IUAL88
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 3:40 PM EDT

Did this have to be? Horrible loss for IU. The coaching staff should be ashamed of playing NOT to lose.

Coffman is not the guy. He stairs down receivers and makes bad decisons. Pick a freakin’ starter!

This was another positive step for IU, but at the same time, we should have one this game going away. Now the media is talking about the power of Michigan State to comback? Please!! IU gave it away.

 
#2
IUAL88
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 3:42 PM EDT

Sorry, should have been “stares down receivers”. So upsetting.

 
#3
Podunker
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 4:00 PM EDT

A much improved effort today, but still some lingering questions.

1. With a 10 point lead starting the fourth quarter, why does Wilson continue to run a hurry-up offense? Why not burn clock, allowing your undersized and young defense to rest on the sideline? In one series in the fourth quarter, IU came out, threw three consecutive passes for no gain, and ran only about 38 seconds off the clock. Why not throw in some running plays and burn at least two minutes off the clock, allowing your outmatched defense to get some rest and put a little more pressure on Michigan State? Those offensive series in the fourth quarter were, which hardly burned off any clock, were major coaching errors.

2. Why can’t IU get a punter? A 20 yard punt in the fourth quarter that gave MS the ball at mid field? All the punts in the fourth quarter were short. Game over.

3. Adding insult to injury, IU got jobbed by the refs on two key calls in the fourth quarter. “Indisputable visual evidence” showed the MS running back’s knee was down with the ball between the one and the two yard lines on that fourth and one deep in IU’s zone, but the replay officials allowed the ball to be placed inside the one (giving MS the benefit of the back’s lunge after his knee was down), giving MS a first down (by about a foot) inside the one yard line on a fourth down play. Those officiating errors represented two TERRIBLE calls (the one made on the field and the one made by the blind replay official) that may have cost IU the game. Then the fumbled punt. IU comes out of the pile with the ball, but loses the call and their starting tight end. The replay did not show any “personal foul” and no explanation was provided for why IU’s player was kicked out of the game.

Aside from predictable play calls in the fourth quarter, which earned IU zero first downs, IU played much better (at least for three quarters) against a much bigger and more mature Big Ten team. Clearly IU’s defense showed significant improvement today. Better tackling, better pursuit, better pass coverage, but in the end MS superior size just rolled over them. I especially liked how the defense fought to the very end. There was no quit in this group, even after they gave up the momentum and the 10 point lead.

Improvement, yes; but still another frustrating loss. The biggest problem I see in these big ten games, is that IU is grossly undersized for this conference. We simply need to get much bigger players. Wilson appears to be doing that with his last two recruiting classes, but we have a long way to go before IU’s size will match a team like Michigan State.

 
#4
Podunker
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 4:05 PM EDT

IUAL88; I will agree with you to a point. This is a game where Tre’s dynamic skills at QB would have made a big difference, especially in the fourth quarter. Michigan State, in the fourth quarter, just sat on the pass routes and either knocked the balls down or tackled the receiver immediately after the catch for little gain. Having the threat of Tre’s running ability would have softened up MIchigan State’s pass defense, giving IU more opportunity to move the ball. That was obvious today, especially in the fourth quarter.

 
#5
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 4:29 PM EDT

I don’t think the Hoosiers have the thoroughbreds for long, clock-burning, sustained drives..The hurry-up was likely the only hope.

IU didn’t get robbed on any calls. The refs threw a lot of borderline unnecessary roughness flags against the Spartans that they could have easily kept in their pocket.

The biggest gripe on Lynch was always the split personality of his team and the inability to sustain for two halves. That old demon sure looked familiar today.

A QB that could get around corners(Tre Roberson)and keep things more dynamic on offense might have been enough to burn some extra clock and get the Hoosiers over the hump.

Should have gone for six at the end of the first half? Why not? What are we protecting? Our image to not pile on points? Our chances to get into a Snausage Bowl?

 
#6
IUGRAD92
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 6:08 PM EDT

Agree on many points noted above. The bad calls ( reminds me of the BSU game – add a second and ball caught out of bounds before FG )- IU is not a team to catch a break – or even a fair review it seems.

Sadly ( 31 pts. ) – the defense played plenty well enough to win. The offense looked great in the first half. Yet another should have been scenario. Really should be 4-1.

That aside and noting all that happened – there is one reason IU lost this game.

SECOND HALF OFFENSIVE PLAY CALLING!!

The low reward – high risk – bubble screen – quick slant in/out game of rushing to throw 2-3 yard passes in ridiculous. Those plays have value when you show deversity and throw the ball down the field ( which we were 2 for 2 on post passes on the day – would have liked to see more down field plays ). I will guarantee you if we pump faked one of those 2-3 yard routes and went deep the receiver would be 15 yards in the clear.

You can’t allow a defense to play within 3 yards of the LOS and just jump routes everytime.

Also agree about slowing the pace in the 4th Q.. No matter what system you run – nobody hurries with the lead in the 4th.

All to familiar a final. Played well enough to win – but…………..

Hopefully in my lifetime – that will change. Did love the enthusiasm in first half. That can make up for inches and pounds.

 
#7
Mike P.
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 6:39 PM EDT

There is one reason & one reason only IU lost this game. Coaching!

Podunker, there was one series that after 3 downs burnt 11 seconds off the clock, the next one burnt 22 seconds. Both of those in the 4th quarter. Wilson and his staff owes his team and the entire Hoosier nation an apology for effing up this game.

H4H, you don’t need a thoroughbred up 10 in the 4th quarter, they have 3 backs, use them, run the ball and burn 2 or 3 minutes off the clock, not 11 seconds! As for the officials, they didn’t cost them a game like they did against BSU, but they did miss a few calls.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that Coffman had happy feet early in the 2nd quarter and at the first hint of pressure was bailing from the pocket most of the game? He never appeared comfortable in the pocket and made some horrible decisions with the ball and some bad throws off his back foot when he did have time to plant.

If Sufield has already burned his redshirt, Wilson needs to play him next week.

 
#8
Podunker
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 7:46 PM EDT

Mike P, you are right. The hurry-up offense in the fourth quarter doomed IU. I don’t understand what Wilson’s logic is for sticking with the hurry-up when up by 10 against a physically superior team. He continues to do it and it continues to fail. I don’t know if he’s calling the plays or not, but it was a terrible strategy, and it’s just stupid. If IU runs three times, even if those runs are for zero yards, IU burns about two minutes off the clock. If IU does that for two series, Michigan State is feeling more pressure, is limited to passing plays, and probably loses this game. Time, or lack of it, is a major source of pressure to an offense, especially when it is behind by ten points, on the road, and is at risk of being upset by an inferior team. Why risk giving your opponent any more time when you’re winning the game? It’s just stupid.

Yes, Wilson and his coaching staff deserve major criticism for the way they called the offense during the fourth quarter. IU may still have given the game away, but at least it would not have been gift wrapped.

 
#9
Podunker
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 7:52 PM EDT

Dustin, do you think any reporter is going to challenge Wilson to explain the logic of the hurry-up offense, while winning the game in the fourth quarter? I hope you and the other members of the media get on his ass this week and hammer him with tough questions about that stubborn and stupid tendency he has. There is absolutely no justification to do that in those circumstances. Again, IU may still have lost the game, but running a total of 32 seconds off the clock in two consecutive series, when you have the lead in the fourth quarter is ridiculous and stupid.

 
#10
Chet
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 8:26 PM EDT

The muffed punt and goal line ball placement calls were pretty sketchy. Looking at the replay, unless the MSU punt returner has 8ft long arms I don’t how it was physically possible for him to control the ball in a pile in which he was on the outer fringes of with three IU player virtually on top of the ball.

The goal line call probably could have gone either way but it certainly wasn’t where they placed it. It didn’t look like he made it but it wasn’t given enough attention to really be able to tell. A quick view from an odd angle and the outcome of the game is determined.

Po, our starting punter left the game early on with an injury following a ‘roughing’ call. We had a freshman (natch) punting the last three quarters.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I just hope they can pull something positive out of this.

 
#11
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 8:53 PM EDT

Podunker …you may or may not be right, but it is clear that the ‘no-huddle/hurry-up’ equalized the size, talent and experience differential. It’s allso clear that it is CKW’s ‘style’ and he’ll live or die with it, which is what a good coach should do.

The comments by one of the MSU linebackers (see Miller story) show they were clearly rocked on their heels by our strategy (play very fast, give not ‘thought’ time). Not saying everything we did was perfect but I think your comments (three comments repeating the same exact thing and using the word ‘stupid’ in reference to CKW or his approach) are a bit unfair.

The real problem, execution at critical times. Surprised we gave up vertical game but I’ll wait until I hear CKW’s view of the game. It’s still going to take a full two years to overcome the palling history we bring to the table and, as you have said, I’ll continue to support. Looking at today, for a while it felt as good as I think we will feel. We need to not get off ‘our game’ and be patient as well.

I can’t remember the last time I could look at a team with forty+ players that played as if they are in the B1G; for a while that’s what it felt like.

Be patient and Lead, my friend.

 
#12
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 9:13 PM EDT

I agree with you Chet. I never think an official sets the difference. But the muffed punt, in particular , (and the placement to an extent) really, really hurt us. And, I’m trying to figure out which of the officials made the call…there were NO ‘white’ shirts after the touch by the man who muffed it, and I could not see (even in the replay)where he had been able to get a hand of the ball through 3-4 red shirts.

The placement on the 1 was clearly advanced once the carrier’s knee hit the ground. But,as the man said…we’re not going to get that call until we show we are no longer the ‘old Indiana’.

Our main issue continues to be in the play of some defensive backs. I felt like crying in the play where their back ‘hurdles’ our back…he must have closed his eyes praying the oncoming back didn’t hit him (was that Mullens again?- in all truth, he had some decent plays, but too many we’ve come to expect- Who’s #8…ohhh gosh! Ballard HS in Louisville! Kentucky. It’s true, everything has an explanation.

 
#13
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, October 6, 2012 - 9:24 PM EDT

Good post IUGrad92. Good observations and questions without the bile featured in some others.

 
#14
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 12:03 AM EDT

…stairs-perfect correction one?? comback??? no cigar…

Wondering why Coach Wilson and Littrell run the fast paced/hurry up O during this timeline is akin to H. Kellenberg asking Coach Crean why he doesn’t change his style of O when things were not going as smooth in year 3 as they are today. This is year 2, Crean had the same(maybe even less competitive)results,(ya, I know apples and oranges) then he continued coaching his way during year 3 when HK dropped the Q on him. How did that work for HK? Whether it is apples or oranges is still takes a big dog to weigh a ton. No infallible staff, Crean and Co. or Wilson and Co. I think I will stick with both.

 
#15
Hoosier Carlton
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 12:10 AM EDT

^ Another rambling attack of Hoosier Loyalty.

 
#16
Podunker
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 3:28 PM EDT

Chet, yes I know about IU’s starting punter, but if you’re on the team, you should be able to perform up to certain minimum standards. My oldest daughter (college soccer player) could have punted the ball farther and better than IU’s back-up punter did during the fourth quarter. Freshman or not, when we needed him most, he was terrible.

 
#17
Hoosier Carlton
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 3:34 PM EDT

And I bet my youngest daughter (HS tennis player) could have punted the ball even farther than your daughter.

 
#18
Chet
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 3:44 PM EDT

Toth, Erich 7 289 41.3 50 0 1

Voss, Mitchell 1 42 42.0 42 0 0

I know this doesn’t indicate situations like downing the ball in the red zone, etc., and game time, but I don’t see much of a dropoff between the two. Toth’s average isn’t all that bad, either. For comparison, Alabama’s punter is averaging 42.27 yards per punt. Less than a yard difference. In 3 of their 5 games his average was lower than Toth’s.

 
#19
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 4:02 PM EDT

I kind of suspect when he is a Junior Toth will have a stronger leg creating more hang time than Voss presently can.

 
#20
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 4:53 PM EDT

Poduunker… that is a really unfair comment and I’ll bet the amount you set your daughter can not out punt Toth. I’d bet that under the same circumstances (calling the count, a snap from center, a very reduced time to get the punt off, a hard rush, her own linemen fighting opposing linesmen off right in front of her…your daughters (or mine) would not punt that ball more than 30-35 yards at her best) and the ball would not climb more than 15-20 feet.

p.s. the fact that she played soccer has nothing to do with it. I played the sport since I was 4 (am now in my 70′s and coached it for nearly 20 years. If she is getting the ball as high and with as much hang time as you claim, you need to complain about the coaching she’s getting and complain very hard.

Podunker…we all need to refocus on getting better, not in showing how we got to where we’ve had more than 15 years without a clue as to how to field a winner. More than anything, let people (from administrators to coaches to players) do their jobs or we’ll be here in another 10 years. From my standpoint, yesterday we showed great improvement and exactly for that reason the areas of weakness glare out even more. Slowly it will come together. It’s obvious the guy in charge has high standards (even for himself- he’ll assess himself as closely as the players).

 
#21
Dunbar
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 7:41 PM EDT

Clarion, you have a horrible habit of comparing IU football to IU basketball. THERE IS NO COMPARISON, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Podunker brought up a very valid point about why not slow down the offense, ya know, to help IU’s chances of winning the game, and you again somehow bring it back to Crean. Two first downs in the second half. Clutched defeat from the jaws of victory. Lynch-esque. That’s the only coach you should be comparing Wilson to.

 
#22
Hoosier Carlton
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 8:22 PM EDT

More Hoosier Clari-nyet for your entertainment:

Posted by Hoosier Clarion at 10:16 am on November 5, 2009

Coach Lynch was interim head coach for one year and has been the head coach for less than two years. [...] His recruiting has even been better than Coach Hoeppner’s. He will be here at least two more years per AD Glass.

Better recruiting than Hoeppner, eh, Clarion?

 
#23
Hoosier Carlton
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 8:31 PM EDT

Now watch how Hossier Trumpet switches sides:

Hoosier Clarion
Monday, October 1, 2012 – 11:24 PM UTC

You are correct Coach Wilson inherited a group of good student athletes from BL but there were not many of them who were good FB players. EWB and Kiel were some of the best he left behind and they were not B10 in more ways than 1. The 5-7 W/L had much to do with having an above average 5th year QB and some good WR’s. The real travesty would have been to keep BL another year, had an 0-12 or 1-11 season and kept all his student athletes around for another season also. That would have been as beneficial as a bucket of warm ^’#~.

Better recruiting than Hoeppner, eh, Clarion?

 
#24
Keith
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 8:54 PM EDT

At least two more years, eh, Clarion?

One year later, after beating Purdue, Lynch was fired.

Proof that Hoosier Trumpet doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

 
#25
Rico Chet
Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 10:49 PM EDT

OK, but who ever pays any attention to Clarinaught?

 
#26
TsaoTsuG
Monday, October 8, 2012 - 12:35 AM EDT

Hoosier Clarion…you are a great and loyal Hoosier fan. Like all of us; sometimes right, sometimes we’re wrong…but always with love for the Cream and Crimson!(more important …in september, october, november and hopefully, some day in December… or, dare I say it, in sunny Indianapolis….and even, … January. Do hope we run into each other that day and have a good laugh about how much we hurt and how much Metamucil we consumed leading up to it.

Don’t worry so much about the ‘voices’ Most are from one source (not all, but most). You’d be better off to just let them go by. Go Hoosiers.

 
#27
Hoosier Clarion
Monday, October 8, 2012 - 9:15 AM EDT

TTG, I am in the Circle City a lot so it could happen sooner than later.

As far as the kids going hysterical on here does not bother me for an instant. I am quite flattered they research my past posts. Here is why. AD Glass absolutely said the term of coaching contracts would be honored at IU. I paraphrased that statement. He did fire BL with 1 year left but paid him off for the last year. BL’s recruiting was better than TH, if in only the fact he had a longer time frame to recruit in. In fact names like Hughes, Roberson, Bolser, Perez, Wilson, Chester, Ewald, Heban, Hoobler, Laihinen, Replogle and more I did not list support he recruited better. See TTG because they have a vendetta they seldom think before they post. They are easily dispatched with some thought and providing facts. I rather enjoy the joust. 1 reason I jump on these is it is good practice and keeps me sharp for unexpected/unplanned opportunities and challenges in business. An activity I have enjoyed my whole life. Double edge-2 birds-2 for and on and on.

 
#28
TsaoTsuG
Monday, October 8, 2012 - 3:21 PM EDT

Good that you have a great attitude and the patience to deal with their bile. I do always wonder why some have the need to demean and disrespect the imagined adversary. Makes no sense since in the end we (mostly we) have the same passion driving us here and together.

But, as you point out, the issue with some is simply that what they state and how they state it; which, in turn, is is limited by their grey matter and ‘mala leche’ (negative breast feeding experiences). In the end, they have a pathological need for adversarial conflict where none is necessary and that is, in human terms, sad.

I do enjoy your passion for the Hoosiers. I stillr remember when the 1967 team made it to the Rose Bowl. After much debate, we traveled to Pasadena by train (we had a 6 month old son)because we would be able to ‘make it last longer’. My grandchildren would love a train trip to see the ‘oosheer!’

 
#29
TsaoTsuG
Monday, October 8, 2012 - 3:38 PM EDT

To clarify, my #28 post in “Live Discussion: Michigan State at Indiana” string was written to and in support of Hoosier Clarion. Go Hoosiers!

 


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