A one-sentence explanation for why Indiana can sign six players tomorrow

21 comments by   |   Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 11:35 pm EDT

Spoke to Chad Hawley, the Big Ten’s associate commissioner for compliance, to get an explanation on the Big Ten’s oversign rules and how it’s possible that a team that only appears to have three scholarships available can sign six. The conversation was generally enlightening on a number of levels, but basically, there’s only one quote out of it you need to know.

“We require schools to let us know how many scholarships they anticipate having available, and we let them go over that by one, but we don’t require them to explain how they’re arriving at that number,” Hawley said.

So basically, Indiana has determined that it will have at least five scholarships available next year. It does not have to tell the Big Ten what two players (or possibly three) it expects to be gone or even if it knows now who those players are. But it does have to commit to the fact that the space will be available because the NLI means the Hoosiers owe the players a scholarship for a year unless they some how fail to qualify or be admitted, as was the case with Ron Patterson.

Five of the Hoosiers six verbal commitments are scheduled to sign tomorrow. The only one who won’t — Oak Hill swingman Troy Williams — will sign Monday when he returns to his home in Hampton, Va.

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#1 Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 1:15 AM EDT

I know this is off the subject but Kentucky is no longer going for what every team is being doing for years that is to go undefeated. Well ops like in the article this past summer saying he would like to go after it. Well have to wait another year Cal. Go Hoosiers!!!!!

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 1:45 AM EDT

Hmmmm… Hopefully at some point you will share the rest of the generally enlightening info.

Steve S.
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 9:00 AM EDT

Gone in 2013-14?:

Seniors: Watford, Hulls, and Elston.

Been Around Forever: Creek.

To NBA: Zeller.

That’s five, with one signee going elsewhere?

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 9:13 AM EDT

I don’t like this at all. So, we have the number one team in the country and we will be looking to show 2 or 3 guys the door early? This will lead for Zeller to be almost wanted to leave by the staff, and why the heck would you want that? Zeller needs to stay, like his brothers did.

#5 Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 9:21 AM EDT

Zeller will be the #1 pick in the draft so why would he stay? Etherington will most likely be a walk-on next year if he doesn’t transfer to Valpo. Victor will most likely be drafted as well.

Hoosier Clarion
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 9:32 AM EDT

Somebody is not going to receive a faxed NLI to sign and return.

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 11:46 AM EDT

Given Hartman a grant makes no sense as if everyone thinks Austin E is going to be forced out. They are the same type of players and Austin would have two years more experience while Hartman would probably ride the pine for at least two years.

Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 6:23 PM EDT

Unless something very strange happens, CZ is going to declare for the NBA draft. That’s four players leaving the program. Mo Creek just became a father. What are the chances that Mo is going to stay on for a another year? Is he scheduled to graduate this spring? He could be the fifth guy departing the program at the end of the season. If those two men move on, the problem is solved. But in addition, a couple guys on this year’s team are simply not talented enough to earn playing time on this, or next year’s team. I’m sure at least one of them will be encouraged to transfer so that they can get playing time with a less-competitive program. If you could get significant playing time somewhere else, but will not get on the court during an game at IU, why would you stay? I mean, I know IUB is a great place, but these guys are competitive athletes and I have to believe they want to play basketball. Practice, without getting any time to play during games gets old after a couple of years.

Now, what are the chances that all six of these new recruits are going to meet IU’s academic requirements next year? I hope they all do, but as we witnessed with Patterson, chances are one of them will not.

I think we all agree that this “new math” recruiting is untoward, but it’s the way things are now done in big-time college basketball. Crean and his staff seem to know what they’re doing.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 10:19 AM EDT

Barring a national championship Zeller stays! He loves being a student athlete and he will graduate next year! However having said that If they would win this year he might think about leaving. His brothers all stayed for four,Tyler a first round pick last year! I think Cody is on a mission for a title and see him staying even if the NBA pays crazy money he is having fun and he is a great teamate ! There are a couple of guys that have been longtime commitments and are Indiana kids that have skills that could be red shirted if need be I do not see CTC turning his back on Indiana kids it would go against everything he has said about keeping the Indiana kids in Indiana. The Patterson deal was strictly academics I believe. CTC could not afford to force a Indiana kid out and have that get out! It would hurt recruiting and everything CTC stands for!INTEGRITY,CHARACTER AND TRUST. The coaching staff has a plan and they know what they are doing so far.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 10:34 AM EDT

TJAUBURN, I think you’re probably right about Cody. I’m not sure he’ll leave if he gets a banner because, if he stays, he could be looking at three banners. That puts him in the Alcindor, Russell, Walton conversation.

He seems to be getting better by the minute and everything I’ve read indicates he’s loving life. If I were his Dad I’d tell him to stay in college and enjoy the experience.

Being the keystone on a multiple title team would give him his own chapter in the history of college basketball. Leave for the NBA and he will be the flavor of the month.

TJ, I’m not clear on how redshirting would help us out.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 11:38 AM EDT

I think Cody is gone no matter what…..Title or no Title.

Hoosier Clarion
Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 2:06 PM EDT

I think CZ stays. Chet’s statement, “If I were his Dad I’d tell him to stay in college and enjoy the experience” if I did not know better came straight from my mirror. If he desires money but wants to stay in school his insurance policy covering his future earning potential is top tier collateral for any bank to loan on. There is something about that family that says, do not miss out on life.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 5:51 PM EDT

If you read Sports Illustrated’s article on CZ, it sounds like he’s gone after this year, regardless of the Championship. The money he’ll get as a lottery pick will be impossible to turn down. He’ll have his degree, he’ll be financially set for life, and he’ll be playing with/against his brother. Why would he risk a serious injury (Mo Creek) when all that is a lock? Zeller is too smart for that. He’s gone after this year, so enjoy him while we have him in Candy Stripes.

Harvard for Hillbillies
Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 6:29 PM EDT

I think he stays. I think he wants more than one banner. I think he wants to stick it to the Establishment. He could have a career-ending injury tomorrow. If he was wholly concerned with financial gain, he could have easily landed a huge NBA contract after last season.

In my humble opinion, the mission is banners(plural). And let’s face it, once he goes to the NBA, he becomes relatively irrelevant. The next three years could create a Hoosier basketball scrapbook of legendary memories and dominance for the ages.

Without the banners will come money and depression..Trip after trip..hotel after hotel…plane trip after plane trip where your name brings little more spark from a crowd than the PA announcer calling Gordon Hayward into a game.

Play for the bright lights..Play to hear the crowd scream “Cody…Cody…CDDY!” and every kid on the block wanting to grab a basketball, head for a driveway or a playground, anyplace with a backboard and rim, and a dream of one day making a dream come true the same.

It will all fade so quickly; the day all frenzied fans will so abruptly stop chanting your name. Take us Hoosiers with you, Cody. Take us to a place we dream.

Harvard for Hillbillies
Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 6:31 PM EDT


Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 6:53 PM EDT

Harvard – there’s a lot there that you said that I agree with. Obviously I hope you are right and Cody stays. Legend vs Relatively Irrelavent has got to be a heck of an internal debate… There’s definitely something to that.

What I can’t agree with is the notion that Cody believes in, or cares about, an Establishment.

Harvard for Hillbillies
Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 7:11 PM EDT

Just my imaginary “stick it to,” Geoff. If it makes you happier, let’s just say he wants to stick it to Purdue(somehow I think it’s bigger than that).

But, hey, thanks for agreeing..And thanks for putting up with a total mommy’s boy that was never hugged. You’re growing me.

Harvard for Hillbillies
Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 7:13 PM EDT

oops…very big oops. You’re growing [on] me.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 7:57 PM EDT

I strongly agree with TJ Auburn and Chet. They lay out some very rational and interesting points. I think Cody Zeller will stay at Indiana for at least a third year and think there are strong possibilities he may stay four.

1. Whenever Cody decides to declare for the NBA, he’ll have tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars made available to him. It does not matter if it is 2013, 2014 or 2015.
2. Cody has an advantage, he’ll have a solid idea of the financial parameters through his brothers and their relationship to their agents. No doubt the Zeller family already knows what Cody’s financial future looks like.
3. As Chet suggests, Cody (and with advice from his family) has probably insured that future through Lloyds of London or some such group. Doubtful that a catastrophic injury would prevent him from a financially secure life.
4. He can probably pick and choose where he would live. (That would make Indianapolis a candidate and he could make location a part of the negotiation). If not available to him in 2013, he can merely reject the offer and drive his point home.
5. The Zeller family is key. They value education and pass on its importance to a good quality of life. Getting a degree is probably important to Cody. I doubt that glittering trinkets or 30-foot limos is part of his values.
6. An NBA lifestyle (other than the dollars) is not nearly as attractive as it appears on the surface. For six months of the year you have nothing but a suitcase, airport terminals, nightly changes, no home, food on the run…
7. Most important, the people you spend most every awake moment with who share the air around you are probably not the brightest, the most solid, ethical, trusted or reliable individuals you’d choose as a trusted circle of friends. Six months a year, your job is a form of ‘indentured servitude’ where you are ‘owned’ and, often, ‘traded’ without a voice.
8. Cody seems very, very happy in the atmosphere he is in now. He plays with his team, they share goals. He has good friends,on and off the team. He is idolized by most people who cross eyes with him, is comfortable and protected, trusts and enjoys those around him and has a strong feeling of his own importance to their lives. I can’t think of too many people who would pass on those circumstances.
9. If Cody Zeller had all the money he’d ever want, one of his main expenditures would be to recreate a life and life style (during the off-season) exactly like the one he already has now.
10. Celebrity, fame and money…he already has it…more so and believable than playing in a place like New Jersey, Oklahoma City or Sacramento. Those he loves are within an hour of him. Cody is ‘home’ and the world of those who’s life revolves around Cody is already part of it.

In other words,…whatever Cody Zeller wants out of life, he probably already has it. Going to the NBA is a serious downgrade; and- go back to assumption 1- the money will be there WHEN he wants it

My opinion, Cody Zeller will likely stay for at least three, probably four years before he decides to leave his present paradise and get a job. He knows…that’s why they call it ‘a job’.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 8:25 PM EDT

I’ll bet $100 for charity he’s gone after this year…no matter if we get a Title or not.

Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 10:34 PM EDT

Sorry Tsao, I think you’re thinking with your heart instead of your head. Hey, we’d all love to see him stay for four years and hang multiple banners in Assembly Hall, but that is highly unlikely. Zeller is very smart and will have, or be close to having his degree in May. He’s competitive and will want to test himself at the next level. a year from now, he’ll be 21 years old! He’s too smart to risk serious injury and life-time financial security just to please his college team’s fans and have fun with is teammates for another year. Besides, it’s not like playing in the NBA is drudgery. He can have fun there too.

I don’t think Crean would have signed six if he was not very confident Zeller was going pro.

After this year, Zeller will be an IU legend, one way or the other.


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