Indiana falls to Butler in overtime


WHAT HAPPENED: Sophomore walk-on point guard Alex Barlow hit a floater in the lane with 2.3 seconds to go in overtime to give Butler an 88-86 win over No. 1 Indiana in front of 19,192 in the Crossroads Classic at Bankers Life Fieldhouse in Indianapolis.

Indiana rallied back from a seven-point deficit with 2:22 to go in regulation and a 74-69 deficit with 38 seconds remaining thanks to a 3-point play by junior guard Victor Oladipo and a game-tying 3-pointer with six seconds to go by freshman point guard Yogi Ferrell. The Hoosiers built an 84-80 lead in overtime, but the Bulldogs got back-to-back 3-pointers by senior guards Rotnei Clarke and Chase Stigall to take the lead back. IU sophomore center Cody Zeller tied the game with 19 seconds left before Barlow’s bucket won the game.

WHO MADE IT HAPPEN: Barlow, a sophomore walk-on, had scored 18 points in his career before Saturday and had one field goal before overtime. However, he backed IU senior guard Jordan Hulls into the lane and hit a floater over him for the game-winner.

Butler coach Brad Stevens called sophomore forward Roosevelt Jones “the best player on the floor” on Saturday, and his line made it hard to argue. He posted a double-double with 16 points and 12 rebounds and also had seven assists and two blocks.

Senior center Andrew Smith scored fewer points than Zeller, but he appeared to win the matchup with 12 points and nine rebounds before fouling out in the second half. Bloomington South graduate Erik Fromm also scored 10 points, hitting a pair of crucial 3-pointers, and junior wing Khyle Marshall scored 11 points.

For Indiana, junior guard Victor Oladipo continued his stellar play with 18 points, four assists, two blocks and four steals. Zeller struggled, but still finished with 18 points. Junior swingman Will Sheehey had 13 points and senior forward Christian Watford had 10, but Watford only grabbed three rebounds and was 1-for-5 from the field.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN: Butler only won the rebound battle by two, but it felt like a significantly greater margin because the Bulldogs got 27 second-chance points to Indiana’s 17. The Bulldogs had 19 offensive rebounds while the Hoosiers only had 20 on the defensive glass.

Butler also took advantage of several IU defensive miscues, including two critical ones on the 3-pointers by Clarke and Stigall in overtime. Clarke was sprung open when a IU defender went under a screen, and Stigall hit his when Hulls bit on a pass-fake while trying to rotate.

The Hoosiers were able to force their way back into the game after falling behind in the second half with a wicked full-court press — which IU coach Tom Crean said he wish he would have deployed earlier — and the Hoosiers got critical plays down that stretch. Ferrell’s 3-pointer was particularly impressive, because minutes earlier he had fumbled a pass that appeared to be a back-breaking turnover. It was a huge shot, considering that Ferrell had come into the game shooting 1-for-10 from 3-point range on the year.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN: Indiana will assuredly lose it’s No. 1 ranking, most likely to Duke, and the dream of matching the 1975-76 team’s unbeaten season are officially dashed, but for a number of reasons, this might be good for the Hoosiers in the long term. It gives the Hoosiers a number of obvious issues to work on, because they had to pay dearly for their mistakes in this one, and there will be evidence on film of what went wrong and the cost of those mistakes. The Hoosiers will still have pressure and a target on their backs, but it gets significantly smaller now that they’ve lost a game. They get to move forward with a spotlight that’s just slightly less bright.

WHO SAID WHAT:

IU coach Tom Crean

On what IU can learn from this:

“We didn’t play well enough to win,” Crean said. “We just didn’t. It’s things that we certainly have to get better at, and it’s things thing we can. It’s communication. It’s rebounding. Those are all things that are correctible … Our practices, they’ll be fierce now. They’ve been, but now we’ve got a chance to really dive in. They’ll be able to say, ‘Hey, this got us. We’ve gotta get this fixed.’”

On rebounding:

“I think we’re gonna be disappointed in some of our contact on the block-outs (when we watch the game on film),” Crean said. “Some balls bounced wrong. We’ve just gotta go up with two hands and get them. Those type of things. Balls bounced (the wrong way) a couple of times like that, but that’s not an excuse for us on the fact that we didn’t rebound well enough. Then the first half, we didn’t offensive rebound nearly well enough. I know we ended up with 18 offensive boards. That number should’ve been way higher today. Our offensive rebounding attempts were not nearly where they needed to be.”

On defensive miscues

“We went under a screen, which was at the top of the chart, don’t ever do that,” Crean said. “We had a miscommunication on a switch. There’s no question we cost ourselves at the end of the game defensively. They made the plays. They get the credit for that, but we made the mistake in how we guarded them.”

On the reason Cody Zeller was not in the game for Butler’s final possession

“We wanted to switch on everything because they were in the ball screen game,” Crean said. “They were running a lot of high ball screens at the end of regulation and overtime. In that situation, we wanted to continue to have that situation, because it was either gonna be a drive or a three. … We wanted to make sure that we could defend the high ball screen which they had been running consistently and not put ourselves in a switch that would be advantageous to them.”

Yogi Ferrell

On his game-tying shot

“I just knew time was winding down. I looked at Cody and he popped out. He just pretty much gave it to me and I was pretty much open, so I just shot.”

On defensive issues

“We just had miscommunication up top. In the heat of battle, sometimes we mis-communicated. Everyone makes mistakes. That just happened, and we’re definitely going to work on that in practice.”

Victor Oladipo

“We’ve gotta continue to keep going. Work on some things in practice and stay together. I think that’s the big thing. Just stay together. Stick with one another and look out for each other.”

AUDIO: Tom Crean

AUDIO: Victor Oladipo, Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell

AUDIO: Brad Stevens, Alex Barlow, Roosevelt Jones

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48 comments:

  • D-BONE #1


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 8:00 AM EDT

    They really exposed Hulls’ on – ball D in half court. That an inability to secure our defensive boards (and generally respond to physical play) will be challenges throughout the year.

  • Ron #2


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:20 AM EDT

    I go back to games to date;

    We’ve beat (per Pomeroy);
    #260, #54, #278, #122 – took us to OT but a win, #252, #21, #291, #170

    #44 – a loss in OT.

    I understand these pre-conference games may be made yrs in advance. I could see 3-4 games against cupcakes but when reality starts to hit in conference play I wonder if the team is prepaired for real competition.

    We have #244, #240 & #271 over the next two weeks. These 3 games can be used to acclimate Hanner and Jerkin (& Elston) to the team. It would be the opportune time to START these three with Holloway and Remy. Let them play the first half the next two games. The third game would be the starting five in preparation for conference play.
    At this point it’s now about winning the next three games, it’s about everyone being prepaired and positioned for the Big 10 run into March. This team as a whole has the potential to blow everyone away and at least get to the final four.

    In 15 days IU faces;
    #53, #7, #8. #10, #14. #18 & etc.

    Yesterday’s game may be a good thing that happened at the best possible time. Regroup and refocus.

    As a uneducated fan of IU, I am bothered more by the Jordy post-game shove than the actual loss.

  • Bobskijo #3


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:06 PM EDT

    I.U. Smelled. Could not rebound. Zeller was outclassed. The alumni group in central Florida met to see this game. All were disappointed.

  • Bobskijo #4


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:07 PM EDT

    And bench Watford.

  • Ron #5


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:20 PM EDT

    Word of caution….Nephew attended office party last night and is now looking for bail $$….DUI. He will lose his license for awhile..lives 36 miles from work. He pretty well f’ed up his life at least for now. Call a cab, sleep on the floor, call a friend….Just don’t drive.

  • Larry #6


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:16 PM EDT

    Zeller has got to start using the turnaround jump shot from 10-13 ft out, he is too predictable once receiving the ball, he’s goin to the hoop. Sure it draws fouls on occasion but it was more defeating in this game, Butler defended his drives to the hoop well.

  • Aruss #7


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 4:57 PM EDT

    If CTC is smart, he has Hanner, Peter and Jeremy playing 20 mins each per game for the next 3 to get them ready for B1G instead of having Zeller and Watford pad their stats against the cream puffs.

  • Geoff #8


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 5:51 PM EDT

    Good point Aruss… Hope you’re right.

  • Podunker #9


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 6:09 PM EDT

    Yes, Aruss, very good point. I hope they’re healthy enough for that amount of minutes, because we need them to get up to speed fast. Does Hanner have a bad foot?

    Who did Jordy shove after the game ended? I saw the shove, I just did not see who he shoved. That’s a big red flag. If I’m the teammate that got shoved, he’s got about a couple hours to recognize his mistake and apologize, or I’m going to visit with him for a little one-on-one time. Jordy has every right to be frustrated, but that’s not how a team leader behaves after a loss. He showed signs of petulance, selfishniss and arrogance in shoving his teammate like that. He’s not Michael Jordon,

  • Geoff #10


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 6:15 PM EDT

    I actually had a much bigger problem with the tongue-lashing that Sheehey gave Abell in the first half after a blown defensive assignment. Waaaaaayyyyy too demonstrative… Right after the whistle in the middle of the paint.

    Just a long night of zero composure.

  • TsaoTsuG #11


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 6:46 PM EDT

    Podunker, that was Maurice Creeks he shoved. Of all the Hoosiers in all the world, the last one who deserves that treatment in Maurice Creek who reminds me of a sergeant who fought for my son’s battalion and got blown up in Baghdad, did six months at Walter Reed, got shot on his next rotation and got shot again in Kandahar. Last I heard of him he was rejoining the same battalion again after fighting with his superiors to rejoin them as well.

    You’ve got it about right,”…signs of petulance, selfishness and arrogance,” all of which come out when he plays like c__p and wants to show he is a ‘frustrated hero’. I’m no fan of his attitude and its obvious that he exploits it against the much lesser opponents. To your description I’d add he is far from being a leader. He does that to me on national TV and the next scene shows him being carried off on a stretcher.

  • Geoff #12


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:08 PM EDT

    Slow down…. It was a minor push. It barely moved Creek. It lasted a mere moment. I’m sure it will be addressed in some fashion.

    Now, it wasn’t the right thing to do, and I’m sure he regrets it…. It did show some petulance… But it ain’t that big a deal. Brothers shove each other all the time. Mom or dad spanks them. Then they make up and go about their business.

    Quit making it into a bigger thing than it is. Like I said, the Sheehey/Abell incident was much more demonstrative and combative.

  • Chet #13


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:18 PM EDT

    Wow, talk about blowing something way out of proportion.

    That looked like the average “not right now..” push a competitive guy gives the first person coming up to him after fouling out.

    It was less than nothing.

    Will is demonstrative to the nth degree. Most of the time it’s a good thing (I think he really, really embraces the ‘upperclassman as a big brother’ roll) but it sometimes comes out as being a horses patoot.

    Imagine that, a 20-year-old who hasn’t finely honed his communication skills. Same goes for Jordy.

  • TsaoTsuG #14


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:38 PM EDT

    Dialogue from The Godfather” “I was almost out….and they dragged me back in…!”

    I had damned near began to take you seriously again…that was not a minor shove, it rejected a very respected and sacrificed team mate who had walked up to him to support and console him and in was done in total rejection and with disdain, all over his facial gesture. Now I don’t expect the stats to show that, but I do expect those who claim expertise to read the atmosphere each of the parts creates in the whole.

    Your are way off. It is the very first thing that the Coach needs to address in the team. I didn’t remember the Sheehey/Remy episode as clearly but after being reminded it did come back but without the clarity of Hulls fit of anger. Either way, Sheehey needs to be called to attention as well.

    Sheehey is a talented and needed player. But I agree with Podunler’s and Laffy’s take on this. Sheehey somehow manages to transmit the feeling that he plays and stars for SUS- State University of Sheehey. It may not be so, but he does communicate that take. I’d be interested in knowing if this is what you see Podunker (or you Chet).

    (Look, either way, I’d take his contribution…it would be so much more enjoyable if it was about the Hoosiers, especially since the Hoosiers were the team to first recognize and value his talent).

  • Three to the Temple #15


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:42 PM EDT

    who had walked up to him to support and console him

    You don’t even know what you’re talking about, eh?!

    Watch the tape.

    Creek was yelling something towards the officials at the time. Happened to be in Jordy’s way. There was no offering of support or consolation.

    Anyway, back to Crean: great coaching, eh! Trophy to the temple.

  • TsaoTsuG #16


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:48 PM EDT

    Harvard…or whatever you call yourself this time to remain unaccountable…simply, you’re wrong. Creeks puts an arm on Hull’s arm, Hulls throws it and pushes off. You and reality really have really had a fight, haven’t you?

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #17


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:54 PM EDT

    Jordy’s desperation launch at the end of OT was a mid-range jumper for Matt Roth.

    Let’s keep that in mind while are walk-on, Jonny Marlin, is on the bench doing his nails.

    Kudos to Yogi hit a big 3-pointer..But is he a consistent threat from the outside? Until we can demonstrate we have more consistency from the perimeter, Jordy will continue to be blanketed like bark on a tree.

    I’m not sure how we’re comparing to the stats of last season, but it seems we’re not scoring from beyond the arc with the same proficiency a year ago. Maybe the heavy focus in turning Watford into something not his game is playing into this. I do believe we had four of the top Big 10 % shooters from deep range last year(Roth, Hulls, Watford, & Elston). Elston’s sample set was a bit low..but he still had great numbers. Things will open up more for Jordy once we get another deep threat(or more perimeter consistency from Watford).

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #18


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:57 PM EDT

    Tsao-

    Stop the false accusations. Post #15 is not mine. Send Dustin one of your friendly emails…He’ll set you straight.

  • Chet #19


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 8:03 PM EDT

    “Jordy’s desperation launch at the end of OT was a mid-range jumper for Matt Roth”

    I like that. It’s certainly hyperbole but it almost seemed that way.

  • Chet #20


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 8:18 PM EDT

    As far as the whole “shoving” thing goes, it looks about like something EVERY competitive person has done in a similar situation at some point. Michael Jordan did that kind of thing during warmups (not that I’d want any of our guys to emulate MJ’s behavior).

    Come on, guys. How would Larry Bird have reacted? Peyton Manning?

    The fact is, no one would have even approached either of those two. They knew better.

    Competitive guy, tough situation. The same thing that makes them great competitors makes them less than warm and fuzzy in those situations.

    You know who probably didn’t give it a second thought?

    Mo Creek.

  • The man of Harvard. #21


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 8:43 PM EDT

    My opinion is hulls isn’t hungry enough to be on this team. Graduation can’t come any sooner. That’s my opinion.

  • JonnyHoosier #22


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 9:35 PM EDT

    The man of Harvard,

    Dumbest thing I’ve ever read on any IU form/board/site ever. Are you getting me? Jordan Hulls has kept us in a few games this year when guys like Cody and CW had been duds. What you just said leads me to believe you’re either a bandwagon IU fan that jumped on this year or just plain stupid. Which one is it?

  • Joe #23


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:07 PM EDT

    Come on HH. You really think Hulls lacks energy? That has to be the most absurd post I have ever read. Without Hulls, Georgetown would be a loss too. You have lost all credibility. Your a loon.

  • Dustin Dopirak #24


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:50 PM EDT

    Tsao, that wasn’t Harvard’s post, just for the record.

  • psych #25


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:01 PM EDT

    Just watched the replay of the game on BTN. It makes my blood (somewhat) boil to watch us lose. If that does not make our Hoosiers’ collective blood boil to lose a game in that fashion, then the season is already lost. I, for one second, do not believe IU will play like that for an entire game the rest of the season. Look out, Big Ten. Look out, NCAA tournament.

  • TsaoTsuG #26


    Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:21 PM EDT

    Thanks DD, sorry Harvard…just assumed since you do use more than one ID,…still my apology for the wrong assumption.

    Dustin, the issue of posting under various IDs’ has become a serious problem. More than one is using false ids’ to freely and aggressively insult and attack legitimate blog participants using the multiple false ids’ as cover. You have solid reason for not censoring content, but I believe posting under multiple ids’ to confuse goes beyond the blog’s and your intent to allow a free flow of thought.

    I also understand that you can not spend much more of your time controlling this traffic, but I think most posters would cooperate with an attempt to clean up some of the comments that merely seek to maliciously attack other participants. I don’t mind serious debate, I do want to know there is a consistency, a responsible comment and a reality to the other bloggers and who they portray to be. Holding posters accountable would simplify your task in a very short time.

  • coachv #27


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:01 AM EDT

    geoff

    maybe i’ll just google that nutcracker burlesque show. my wife conned me into seeing “vagina monologues” with her. ughh. the only reason i went is because she convinced me it was a ventriloquist act.

    you earlier mentioned iu should have gone zone on the last posession but that would pretty much guarantee that clarke would shoot the last shot. after reading his bio in the star, not sure i would want that.

    jordy had barlow going right sideline and forced him to turn back to the middle by overplaying his right hand. personally, i prefer to funnel the ball sideline where there are less options and it’s less risky to trap the ball.

    as a side note, if i were crean i would have required zeller to shoot two 3′s per game against every cupcake on the schedule, whether he wanted to or not. these kids don’t always know what’s good for them.

  • Dustin Dopirak #28


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:24 AM EDT

    Tsao,
    I don’t disagree. I don’t know if we’ll be able to pull this off or exactly what’s involved, but I’ve voiced my desire to follow the example of numerous other publications and require posters to log in through Facebook. It’s not a panacea, but the sites that I’ve seen that have it (The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Esquire among others) seem to have a higher level of civility. Now, I have no clue at all what’s involved there, if there’s any sort of cost involved. I mean, I truly don’t have the foggiest, but if it was entirely up to me, that’s what we would do.

  • Hoosier Clarion #29


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:38 AM EDT

    Hull’s reaction after the game was as far as I am concerned slightly above noticeable. After that game somebody better show some emotion. I’ll bet practice is damn physical this week and much more so than that push can be exaggerated.

  • Hoosier Clarion #30


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:52 AM EDT

    DD, that is all well and good if you Facebook. I do not and do not intend to start. It is a damn blog, skip over what you don’t like or what does not interest you. Just as I do with the subject of Facebook. Or you boys need to pull the trigger on the problem makers.

  • vgBMG #31


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 2:29 AM EDT

    DD—I am with HC. I don’t Facebook for the same reasons. But, I also believe this site needs to clean up its(our) act and stop the practice of posting under different names.

    I am not computer savvy enough to determine if the following would work: (1) require everyone to sign up for a DISQUS(free) signature, (2) allow only one name per internet address, or (3) attach the blogger’s e-mail address to their post. #3 would remove the trolls and probably be very interesting; but, not a great idea.

  • Laffy #32


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 3:05 AM EDT

    It sure is cute how HH has a MELTDOWN over being called a bigot after trying to destroy the character of Crean and any kid not from the Midwest.

    Jesus, talk about being a coward and a hypocrite…..as well as a bigot.

    Yeah, after Sheehey’s crappy performance, he’s the last guy to rip someone else a new one. I saw it and thought it was ridiculous. Besides Watford, he’s becoming my least favorite player on the team. Stop the showboating crap.

    “Bringing energy” does not mean showing off.

    Anyone have video of the shove? I didn’t see it nor can I find it.

    And I’m not calling DD a liar, but I still think HH is half of the BS fake names on here. If he did them from another computer or cell phone, how would DD know?

  • Dustin Dopirak #33


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 4:01 AM EDT

    Laffy,
    He’s not. You’re reaching. And you’re wrong.
    Vg, HC,
    Just because you have a Facebook account doesn’t mean you have to Facebook, which I guess is a verb now. They’re not going to require you to post pictures of your office Christmas party or send a friend request to the dude who sat behind you in sophomore year history class or comment on the pictures of your cousin’s new baby. You don’t have to be involved in it in any way. It’s free, so it would be no different than signing up for Disqus or whatever that is. It’s not a labor intensive process. Once you’re signed in, you’re in until you sign out, and you wouldn’t have to actually go to the site ever again to comment here. If there’s going to be some sort of sign in that keeps everybody from using multiple names, it might as well be Facebook as anything else, because I’d guess more people on here have an account with that than anything else.
    If you want a site without people stealing names and using multiple names and what not — which from what I gather, is really important to all of you — I apologize, but there’s going to have to be a small inconvenience on the part of you all. I don’t have time to moderate this every hour of every day and I don’t have the power — and we don’t have the money — to hire someone solely for the purpose of doing that. (And frankly, who the heck would want that job?) Like I said, I don’t know what’s involved here, and I don’t know if we’re going to do this or what it’s going to take on our part, but there’s interest in the idea within the newsroom for this not just for this blog but across the board even for our main comment section. Frankly, across the board, people are nastier when they get to be anonymous, and we’ve got too much nastiness not just on here but on basically every story that goes up on the main site. This is as good a way to curb that as anything I can think of.

  • Downing's 5th #34


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 5:02 AM EDT

    Here’s to the only blog that allows the legendary screen name.

    Long live Hoosier Scoop in its current form. Long live trust in our hearts to do the right thing. And thanks to Dustin for believing that decency can prevail without policing, Yacht Clubs, and privacy intrusion.

    With all its flaws, Scoop remains open and honest to all forms of satire, critique, and expression. It’s a shame that uniqueness will soon be lost because of a lack of humanness to simply be forgiving and lighthearted.

  • Podunker #35


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 5:34 AM EDT

    Downing’s 5th, people should not be allowed to impersonate another poster. I like your ideals, but unfortunately, there are people out there that do not play by the rules of civility and/or integrity.

  • Hoosier Clarion #36


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:43 AM EDT

    DD,

    Please, I know exactly how the Facebook account works. So I’ll state my position more succinctly, at no period between our present point in time and my funeral will I create a Facebook account. So please give us advance notice when your new folly will kick off so I can give my goodbyes before it is instituted.

  • Dustin Dopirak #37


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:31 AM EDT

    OK Clarion, now you’ve got me curious. A Facebook account is an over-my-cold-dead-body issue for you why exactly?

  • Josh #38


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:24 PM EDT

    Dustin,

    This is a terrific site, but cant you ban IP adresses to the bullies who who are trying to tear down this place like FC13 and Laffy? I dont understand why we have to go through Facebook Banning IP addresses would be easier.

    Also, what is this I keep reading about a proposed lawsuit against this blog? If I am going to be involved in a lawsuit against a disgruntled blogger, then maybe we are in need of a privacy note before we post, telling us nobody can sue HT, etc over a post. Thanks, and keep up the good work.

    Josh

  • Laffy #39


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 1:03 PM EDT

    Dustin–

    I’ve suggested several times you could have volunteer moderators, like most sites do, and you always ignore that. Why?

    And how is it “reaching” when HH actually admits to having some of the fake names?

    And like I said in the other post, you keep threatening to ban me for calling your buddy HH an idiot yet you still have people stealing screen names. I mean…..give me a freaking break.

    And “Josh”, it sure is odd how you… (cough) HH (cough)… give HH a free pass when he’s on here trashing the character of Crean and any player not from the Midwest 24/7/365 for “tearing this place down.”

    I didn’t cause ANY problems for MONTHS and only jumped back into it because HH puked all over it constantly….and many other posters even said they were sick of it.

    And you can put up any “disclaimer” you want. Doesn’t mean crap. Trucks will put signs on the back of their vehicles, “If you get hit by a rock from our truck, you can’t sue us” when that’s complete nonsense.

    If this place allows cyber-stalking, while threatening to kick off someone for calling another a bigot (when they are one), they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit.

    Dustin loves Facebook so much. Well, they go after cyber-stalkers. The do not tell people, “Hey, if you’re being harassed, just stop coming to our site. No one is forcing you to use Facebook.”

    Yeah, I’m not using Facebook either and never will.

    Why?

    Because I’ve had people threaten to come after me in real life and I don’t want some fruit cake like HH with my real info….especially with all the shootings going on.

    Over the top? well, “no one saw it coming” with MOST of the shooters so that excuse doesn’t work with me.

    HH is an unstable wacko.

    There, my “name-calling” is done. DD asked why and I told him.

    If I do get banned, he and his boss WILL get sued because I think it’s BS they’d kick me off got calling HH a fruit cake while allowing cyber-stalking to continue.

  • stationary front #40


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 1:07 PM EDT

    Volunteer moderators is absolutely a great idea. I nominate the following: (a) Harvard and (b) Laffy. Without going into too many details I think they would make a great team.

  • Dustin Dopirak #41


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 1:16 PM EDT

    Laffy, don’t freak out. I got this.
    Josh, I guess my answer would be that I don’t want to be the sole arbiter of what’s defined as “bullying.” FC2013 is clearly and openly a troll, so I’m not attempting to defend him here, but I’m pretty sure we’ve effectively shut him up the last two weeks or so, no? And you could say Laffy is a lot of things, but I don’t think he’s a bully. He’s standing up for what he thinks and he’s not necessarily trying to hurt anyone else, he just isn’t big on tact.
    I don’t think anyone else here is necessarily a bully either, but there are a lot of people on here who are guilty of being less-than-civil with each other. So where do you draw the line? If I banned everyone on here whoever engaged in extensive name-calling, I’d be banning just about all the regulars.
    Facebook would end the name-stealing once and for all and frankly, I’d be really interested to see how this place would change if everybody had to put their real names on everything they post and be accountable for everything they write.
    But I appreciate where you’re coming from. Thanks Josh.

  • Laffy #42


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 1:23 PM EDT

    Dustin–

    Someone stole my screen name just today/yesterday and I pointed it out in the other thread…..don’t know if you saw it or not.

    I don’t think there would be a problem at all with volunteers if you picked the right guys.

    I think everyone trusts Chet and Geoff. Hell, I’d even trust TT with it.

    I do find in curious you keep threatening to kick me off but not to whoever keeps stealing names and/or using 50 different names.

  • TsaoTsuG #43


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 3:20 PM EDT

    DD…are you just as willing to tell me that Downing’s 5th is not another identity for HH (please don’t come back with the answer that it is posted from a different computer)?

    On Facebook; Facebook has been questioned (and rightly so) for the frequency with which it changes its privacy, information and storage rules. There have already been several rebellions by users. Since Facebook keeps ownership of all info posted on their site (I would assume that includes my participation on this blog), it would become information that Facebook could store and release later…, many including me, consider it a violation of property and privacy rights.

    The issue (without trying to be a bore about it) DD, is that you took a very liberal and passive policy towards all issues that have now surfaced over the last year. You simply did not want to have anything to do with controlling content. I don’t blame you for that.

    But, I am asking that we deal with two types of abuse that go beyond that which could legitimately be acceptable under any common agreement to keep the site viable and decent.

    1. Give you the right to automatically reject any post that includes obscene language or directs insults at other posters.

    2. A rule that gives you the discretion (in other words, you choose) to reject those posts that seem to be personal attacks on other posters. (i.e. – and I am giving this only as an example- the war between HH and Laffy that thankfully ended about two weeks ago when we all said ‘enough’).

    3. A rule that states that a poster can only take one ID to submit his/her posts here. That in itself will give this site some measure of accountability and force a level of decency into the discussions.

    DD, I believe you were trying to be open with your duty as ‘moderator’ and not heavy-handed. Not a bad idea. You tried it, it didn’t work. We (I use ‘we’ so no one can feel it is aimed at any one in particular) abused it. You can be strong, you can have clear opinions, you can defend with vigor, you can be polemical …but to quote President Obama on an entire different scale, yet with the same weight of responsibility for our own behavior ‘ we have got to change’.

    And DD, (as someone that enjoys busting your chops) but respects the job you do and are trying to do…you have got to address this with some semblance of leadership and authority of the entire site will disappear within weeks.

  • TsaoTsuG #44


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 3:32 PM EDT

    Laffy- having really enjoyed your analysis and commentary over the last week, I’ll aski you…just don’t even address HH (and I’ll ask HH the same towards you)….please???!!!

    Losing you as a poster would be a loss. (Losing him in his contemplative and rational moments would be a loss). I want to be a part of an intelligent, active, open exchange of views that has some character, that is interesting and vital but that values dignity and respect. Please, please do not address HH…just forget him, just give us all those good comments that come from you.

    Look…Podunker and I have had some tough exchanges (over fat people… ha-ha…just kidding Po) . But, he’s always been an up-front guy and I respect him as a true Hoosier and friend. Same with Chet, he’s had his say about things he didn’t like in some of my posts…but I read them and consider the content and who they come from and it is easy to respect it). We don;t have to be the wild men of the Amazon bush and hunt each other with machetes.

    And Lord, we begin from the assumption that we are all rabid Hoosiers who, under different circumstances would have each other’s back. Let’s get back the Hoosier in the Scoop.

  • Geoff #45


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 3:39 PM EDT

    I’d trust TT over me any day…. I’m pretty lenient and maybe overly patient.

    I’m not sure it’s obvious to Dustin who is using multiple screen names and when they are doing it… That would probably have to take some investigative work, and we know that this blog is already about 3rd on the work priority list. Not only does he have to write content, but also has to be an administrator on the site, read all our our posts to make sure were not being fools… I’m sure monitoring all the posting names is never going to be a priority.

    Your only hope is that we go to another log-in format… And I don’t really get worked up by the trolls or name-switching, so I’m not going to be signing that petition.

  • Laffy #46


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 4:33 PM EDT

    TT–

    You got it.

    I ignored him before and I’ll do it again.

    By now, everyone knows I think HH is a worthless piece of crap so I’ll just leave it there.

    And you made great points about Facebook. Also, I’ve never used it (I’m also the last person in America to never own a cell phone) but can’t people just sign up on there with a fake name?

  • Mass Hoosier #47


    Monday, December 17, 2012 - 4:37 PM EDT

    This is a place for all of us Hoosiers. Be it by birthright, education or admiration, it is for our enjoyment. At times I find it hard to weed through and follow every discussion. I know I miss some interesting thoughts and facts. Some times there is some really funny sh!t on here. But as I have stated before, I limit my time here because it can be quite the challenge keeping up.
    Words read, are and can be different when spoken. We don’t see each others faces, we can’t hear each others tones. It is up to each of us to respect each other and ourselves. Many have mentioned having beers together. I wonder how many would last in the group. Who would be the first one asked to leave. The first one to throw a punch, the first one to be punched. Look at it this way, since we are all here for the sports side of life. What if we were a team? Who would be our starting five on this site. Our starting eleven. Who would be bitched out by coaches or captains. Who would fumble, throw an errant pass, or have a bad shooting night.
    A little perspective goes along way folks. Rise up and help the team anyway you can. Do the best you can. Listen for the experience, the facts, the level headiness. Look for leaders, be a leader. Think how you might act in the presence of others in person. For me, it is harder to be direspectful and or mad on here than it is in person. Why get so worked up? And I don’t get upset easy in person, unless Valentine is reffing.

  • Hoosier Clarion #48


    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 11:23 AM EDT

    Dustin,

    Don’t try making your timidity and inaction my problem. I deal with problems immediately, as I will do with your Facebook requirement. I won’t tell you what to do. But we as posters on this blog hold some ownership on here, so I will say this. Think back through the experiment that was the control of 4guards. Success is what I would call the conclusion of that experience. That is your model, your template. Ask for a show of hands to declare how the owners think that action has worked out. The Facebook thing is just a hoop to jump through to avoid positive action to control the problem. There are only 2 instances when I jump through hoops, the ones my wife asks me to and the ones the government demands of me. I certainly understand you do not want to be in control but you are in control.

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