Indiana vs. Coppin State
How many turnovers did Hulls have? He really took the night off. I hope he’s not believing his own hype.
And he told the Reno Gazette-Journal in 1999: “Nobody thought I would be a great coach. I am kind of the guy you’d expect to be driving an 18-wheeler through town.”
Very few unique coaching personalities left in the game of basketball anymore. Rick Majerus was truly authentic; self-deprecating and a humble breath of fresh air in world filled with so many fighting for the tops of podiums. Majerus fought for his players more than limelight and I doubt if he’d ever give up on any troubled young man. He loved the game and he loved to coach for all the right reasons.
My heart is heavy tonight. I’ll miss Rick Majerus…
sorry..forgot the link to the story I quoted.
Concerning isn’t it Aruss?
Does hulls get the Watford treatment from all those who were saying Watford was an unnecessary part of the machine? Do people point out forced, no-look passes? Or defensive errors for standing flt-footed? Do they point out he’s a fourth year senior and ‘we don’t need him’ next year.
Naaahhhhh…he’s a nice kid. Let’s keep them both and appreciate what they bring to the dance.
I think you know why CW was dumped on after the UNC game(Aruss I am not so sure of). But if you and/or others do not it is because he disappears or goes through the motions w/o energy on offense in some games. I would be hard pressed to name another member of the team who suffers that malady. Tonight he showed energy, so no bitch will be posted.
Re: Rick Majerus, jeez I hated to hear that. Sad, sad news for anyone who loved college basketball. A one of a kind, a brilliant coach who totally understood the game. When Knight left, I thought Majerus may be the perfect one to follow RMK at Indiana, the ‘other side of the coin’.
RIP Rick Majerus, even those of us who never met you will miss you …and your humor.
That is so sad about Rick Majerus. The whole diet thing will be beat to death but Coach M was a brilliant basketball coach. Truly, truly a great coach. He was also the picture of heart disease.
It is so sad on the human level. He was someone’s husband, father, and grandfather. But, to us, he was an absolutely brilliant basketball coach.
He may make his greatest impact by giving another young child a few more years with their beloved grandfather. I’ve always stayed very fit because I want to see my own grandchildren. No one but my nearest and dearest will care but maybe Coach Majerus’s demise will inspire some others to stay around to see heir grandkids.
One never knows the impact they might leave.
Nothing…nothing in life like having the house invaded by grandchildren while watching an IU game and hearing them say…”trains!…watch trains…Diesel 10, that’s Thomas!…”, much, much more important!
Tsao – Hulls is my favorite player, but to answer your question, he absolutely frustrated the shit out of me tonight.
Dipo has shown in the last couple games exactly why he is a NBA player. He impacts the game without needing to have the ball in his hands. He overwhelms people on defense, comes up with every loose all, and sneaks in offense through constant motion and energy. Those who say he won’t be a pro until he makes perimeter shots more often just don’t get it…
HC…go back to my comment on CWat after the NC game. I also thought he played really poorly but did so because he focused on everything else involved; the 25 scouts at the game, the magnitude of playing NC for a national #1 rank, perhaps his non-start(I just th0ought about that, he didn’t start that game, did he?) and forgot to play basketball. Perhaps a bit of ‘oh hell…what’s…’
But CWat was emasculated by some here. I’m not referring to you and/or to other bloggers who questioned his game and this game’s passivity in particular. But, some of the posts I read went well beyond questioning his performance to questioning the man himself. And that friend is hard to take on a man who came to Indiana when we were the Bubonic plague and our own ok players were going places like Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Ohio State… He stuck his chin out and grew the Hoosier in him. Some of those crying need to remember what it was like to be laughed at, or worse, be the object of pity and ridicule. Instead he climbed into his candy stripes, stuck out his beard and said, ‘Hoosiers play ball.’
Sometimes, some fans get the team they deserve.
(I’m absolutely not talking about you Clarion or some who were hard but still show CWat their respect).
I caught a few glimpses of the Lakers playing on ESPN the other night and watched a megastar, Dwight Howard, discover the true art of free throw shooting: Seventeen different ways to hit a rim while employing various caroms off a backboard without ever allowing the ball to drop through a cylinder and find the center of a net. Seriously? Can’t somebody on the 100 million dollar coaching payroll afford a phone call to bring in a junior high coach from Indiana to get Howard’s tiny quip in his game resolved?
Maybe I’m old school…I do love the theatrical atmosphere of it all, the celebrities in the stands, the circus clowns that run into the crowd wearing “World Peace” jerseys, stars humble enough to sleep with homeless hotel maids, coaches picked from a roulette wheel, and all the high-flying trapeze above the rim stuff, but isn’t there a rule(albeit a very corny and outdated facet of the game) that a player assaulted going to the rim must then use kung fu meditation techniques to teach a ball to fly through air like happy grasshopper for 15 feet of gravity defying moments and pass through net to find same inner peace and equilibrium with a Bill Walton sweaty headband meets David Carradine meets ‘The Wizard of Westwood?’
I mean, isn’t this LA? Isn’t this the land of Beach Boys and psychedelic “Good Vibrations” flowing off every pair flip flops worn where never the uptight and uncool shall be found? Howard shoots free throws like Sarah Palin shoots one-liners at Barack. There’s no touch. There’s no finesse. There’s no art. There’s no stopping the cringing when you find yourself in the unfortunate moment to watch it happen..There’s certainly no ‘Good Vibrartions’ to be sung from a rim with no greatest hits.
It just ain’t cool, Dwight. Find a way. Wilt found a way to bed 10,000 women and still make time for a date at the charity stripe with Bob Cousy’s virgin underhand toss from between the knees. But Wilt was the “Gentle Giant”…Soft hands and soft release to go along with a very studly game of hoops with the finesse. Think of the rim as your lady…Don’t disrespect her simply because you have very expensive hands. It cheapens the game and cheapens the good vibrations your newly discovered California swagger.
Find help. Find inspiration. It’s California! Everything is possible in California! A teenage pansy turned body builder from Austria showed up at Venice Beach and magically became the governor. You can surely pull a Houdini, a dead rabbit out of the maids hat, and make that 10 lb. dumbbell your tossing at the rim perform like a basketball.
I stand corrected. There can be a lot to learn from a #300 team.
Tsao – i like this passive aggressive you much better. I will speak for myself only… The difference for me between Watford and Hulls is that Watford has frustrated me EVERY game except the one he came off the bench (Sam Houston State). He did start against UNC, but Crean started Sheehey in the 2nd half… Hulls rarely frustrates me, almost always makes the right decision, almost never takes a bad shot, and I never question that he is on the same page as Crean. I am constantly questioning those things with Watford. It has no more to do with the NC game than it does last nights game. This year Watford just looks like he’s constantly forcing things and rarely in the flow with the rest of the team.
Here’s the thing… Just like any family… And I’m sure it’s like this with teenage kids… You always have the one that you just wish would cut the crap… Where you always saying to yourself why did he do THAT?! It doesn’t mean you don’t love them or want to disown them… It just means you’re aware.
Well, with Watford I’m aware, and this is a blog, so I’m talking about it.
Ultimately my dream, and I have not given it up yet (like I had by VJ3′s junior year), is that Watford settles in to his role and consistly performs it. I’m hoping for 11 pts & 8 boards a game in 25 minutes and fewer than 10 shots per game in the B1G season. I honestly believe that he will RARELY be better than the 3rd best offensive option on the floor and should internalize that. If he does then we’ll be almost impossible to beat this year. Watford as a role player is tremendous. Watford as a star was when we were 12-20. But he has to be the one to accept that if it’s going to happen.
I think CWat plays better off the bench. I don’t mean as a punitive thing. I just think he plays better off the bench.
I think Wat has killed his NBA chances of going in teh first round.
IU lands #15, Florida LB T.J. Simmons.
CW emasculates himself when he plays w/o energy. His M.O. is he disappears. Will was brought in to handle UNC’s McAdoo because he was owning CW, held him to 0 points and still scored 19 himself. He is the 1 that needs to remember our darker days of BB and refrain from returning the level of play back to that time. There were some who defended him after the UNC game saying he would bounce back big and score 20(1 predicted 27)in the next game. He got 10 and 7 boards, right where Geoff(and I concur)thinks he should be. Hulls made plenty of mistakes against Coppin but did it while playing at full tilt boogie.
You guys are grossly undervaluing Watford. You’re going to eat your words.
Nope… He may put up better numbers than that, but it won’t make IU better. I won’t be eating my words.
…Ditto… exactly right…
It’s a complete insult to compare Watford to VJ III. He’s never been a turnover machine.
We weren’t 12-20 because Watford was trying to be a star. We were 12-20 because there was no Zeller and no quality point guard to compliment/interchange with Hulls.
Watford saved us against VCU and is the primary reason Seth Davis ate his Establishment words. There is no win against UK. There is no Sweet 16 appearance without Watford’s performances against the very athletic teams that had our backcourt shut down last season.
It’s convenient to jump on his ass this year when you have a Yogi Ferrell in the backcourt allowing those deficient in size and versatility to get their open looks courtesy a top talent and solid creator in the backcourt.
Because of the changing dynamics brought by Ferrell, no player on the roster will rarely be called upon to dominate out of necessity. Zeller has looked just as ‘absent’ at times because of the multiple weapons rising to surface with a guard that can open up the floor.
When we hit tougher backcourts in the Big 10, Watford’s assets will once again come into play.
…no player on the roster will be called upon to dominate out of necessity.
Prepare to eat words in four weeks.
Yes, the dynamics have changed this year but I was on his ass last year and you were not able refute it then. So here we go again, he mirrors this year like last year. It is not a skill/talent issue. It is state of mind, decisions and attitude. His M.O. remains the same, he at best has periods when he loafs and disappears in games and at worst plays lazy, lethargic, inconsistent, w/o energy and enthusiasm for whole games. Yea we will need him this season but only during the periods when he is putting out effort. Sheehey is at least equal to him and puts forth positive effort every minute and no one denies. He is in trouble when the other 3 become available. Maybe CC can get the B10 to intervene and allow IU games to use 8 players, 3 basketballs and add 30 more minutes to each game. That would greatly help CW’s future predicament. When we hit tougher back courts Remy, Will, Jeremy and Vic will add the needed support.
Quick message for Bears fans:
It’s not here ‘WE’ go again…It’s here ‘YOU’ go again(and the rest of the bandwagon crowd that’s always looking for someone in candy-stripes that doesn’t play like a robot to jump on)…Dumping on a vital component that was instrumental to a Hoosier basketball team getting back to national relevancy.
It’s all rather sad that he’s being thrown overboard again. And before we’ve even hit the Big 10 season? Wow..just..wow.
In all honesty, the player that doesn’t look himself and hasn’t shown he can take his game 10 feet from the basket(as many were proclaiming he had the ability to achieve) is Cody Zeller.
If Watford’s NBA stock has dropped, then Zeller’s has dropped equally. It’s early. Maybe we should refrain from putting nails in any coffins until the season is a couple weeks beyond its infancy…..Ya think?
Enjoy it while it lasts, fruitcake.
Nice to know you’re still plastered to the Scoop screen, breathing heavily, a true “Peeping Tom.” Always figured you were peering at Harvard through the peephole though you’ve lost the ability to ‘harness the zest’ to blog without wearing one of your many masquerade costumes.
A couple days ago, apparently because Cwat had a bad game against UNC, scoring only two points on 1 of 9 shooting, Debbie wrote, “CWat is a selfish player and a cancer on the team.” Today, after clearly performing below his standards and statistical average, I expected Debbie to make similar comments about Cody Zeller. Come on Debbie, where is your criticism of Cody Zeller? Your criteria seems to be straightforward; when a player has a bad night, that player is “selfish” and a “cancer on the team.” Well, Zeller, relative to his typical performance had a bad game last night, but I must have missed your assute assessment and attack on his character..
HforH nailed it in post #21. CWat is a valuable part of this team and will continue to be most valuable as we get into the Big Ten. We’re playing teams that are filled with “water bug” quick players right now. When we start banging with the big boys, CWat’s value, and his performances will improve. Until then, why don’t we celebrate that our team is the undefeated #1 ranked team in the country and lay off these guys for one less-than-perfect performance.
BTN news break announcers just mangled Vic’s name. Had no idea who they were talking about untill they showed his highlights. Sad but they will learn
It is happening before your very eyes, the CW highlight headlines of yesteryear are being replaced with the names Vic, Will, Jeremy and Abell.
1) some of Watford’s shots are just like turnovers.
2) I never said IU was 12-20 because Watford was TRYING to the star. I said they were 12-20 when he WAS the star.
3) What Watford did last year on a team, that by your own admission has different dynamics this year, has nothing to do with what he SHOULD be doing now. In fact, I’ve been stating that all along. YOU and WATFORD are stuck on what he has done in previous years…. When we needed him to force things in order to have a chance… Now we don’t. BOTH of you need to internalize that so YOU individually and the team can move forward.
4) my issue isn’t with his absence… It’s with his presence. He is forcing things and disrupting the offensive flow.
5) I’ve always said Watford didn’t have much NBA stock anyway. But if that is his goal this year we are in trouble.
You should know better Harvard. I can’t use my name anymore with any regularity, because your darker other half promptly steals it and posts as me. So enjoy “HT” while it lasts because I’m going back underwater after this post!
And here’s some reading material for ya as a parting gift!
We’re playing teams that are filled with “water bug” quick players right now. When we start banging with the big boys, CWat’s value, and his performances will improve.
I don’t steal names. Dustin can instantaneously verify that it’s not my thing. Why would I steal names when the “attention whore” has such notoriety? Never have stolen blogging names…Never will.
Good to know you still care, HT. I miss you too. Good luck to your Seahawks going forward. Impressive performance from Wilson. They certainly bitch-slapped my Bears today. Best thing that could have happened at this stage of the season..Bears need a bit of a wake up call.
The term “forcing” is rarely used when the shots fall.
I don’t believe for one second that Hillbilly only uses one name on here.
He could be using one of those “proxy” things or have two computers or something.
His only reason for living is having people pay attention to him on this blog….and one name isn’t enough to get his fix/high.
On a basketball note, if Wat doesn’t stop caring so much what the NBA scouts think, we’re screwed.
Just as is we can’t beat a zone because you know all the good teams will throw that at us now. God forbid we meet Syracuse in the Dance.
Po – THE WHOLE DAMN POINT IS ITS NOT ONE PERFORMANCE!
He’s only had one GOOD performance… And it’s when he was the 6th man.
If it were one or 2 games, like Zeller, then I wouldn’t be saying anything.
I am enjoying this very much… Walked into open gym this morning with my replica red jersey on over my jacket and my finger raised in the air. Got a few good laughs, but no one could say anything but, “you’re right, they look tough.”
…but I’m not going to bury my head in the sand either and pretend like Watford is part of the reason why. All I want is for him to take shots when he’s open and not force a shot EVERY time he posts up… If he’s not open on the catch MOVE THE BALL!
And nearly all of VJ’s “forced” shots and out-of-control drives to the basket were turnovers on top of turnovers on top of more turnovers committed by bad decisions with the ball.
Oladipo often forces going to hoop as well.
There’s rarely a player on the roster that doesn’t have the same issues, the lapses in discipline, that are solely and unfairly being attributed to Watford. Count them all as turnovers.
Wat has far more bad possessions than good ones.
The shots aren’t going in… Because they’re mostly forced.
They’ve never really gone in with much consistency… Because many are forced. Especially in the post. In his four years his HIGHEST FG% for a season is .422 – that ain’t good. The fact that he is 6’9″ and he shoots 2-pt fg’s at a 40% clip for his entire career is shocking – that ain’t good. This season he is shooting only 36% FG – that ain’t good. This year he is shooting only 33% on 2′s (against a bunch of “waterbug teams”) – that ain’t good.
Zeller is shooting 63%
Dipo is shooting 63%
Hulls is shooting 56%
Sheehey is shooting 58%
Abell is shooting 64%
Flow… Ball movement… Open shots…
Watford needs to get with that program. He is an excellent OPEN perimeter shooter. He has never been a good post up player. He was a post option out of necessity.
I don’t believe for one second that Hillbilly only uses one name on here. He could be using one of those “proxy” things or have two computers or something.
Especially a something.
You know what I think he’s using? A fruitcake: you.
CWat’s game is like James Harden. More of a perimeter player. He’ll thrive more in an NBA setting as a 3 instead of 4. We expect what we got yesterday from him on a constant basis, the unexpected problem was Hulls sloppy play. I thought I was watching the replay of the baylor/uk game.
Aruss… Take that back quick!
Harden and Watford’s games are polar opposites. You must be thinking of someone else.
CWat YTD is 29 out of 78 FG’s. He has picked up his rebounds (66). 14 assists, 7 turnovers, 5 blocks and 9 steals. Rebounds and FT & is his strong point so far. Playing around 25 mins a game (20 low after a 15 point game to 39 min after a 14 point game).
It would be interesting to see Remy pick up some major minutes. Would his shooting % be maintained?
Ron – if Watford concentrated on defensive rebounding and knocking down open 3′s that would be ideal. Those ate thins he is good at. He needs to stick to his strengths with this much talent around him.
Those ate thins… Nice.
Now I wouldn’t say they “bitch-slapped” da’ Bears. It wasn’t exactly a convincing win; and they nearly blew it in after letting Cutler find Marshall for 50 yards in the final 20 seconds and then Gould tying it (the Seahawks like to imitate the Huskies from time to time and give away wins at the end).
Still, a road win against the Monsters of the Midway is always an accomplishment; never a small feat. Russel Wilson is indeed a man amongst men, and as much as I hate Wisconsin players, Russ is a Hawk now and I love the guy.
Thanks for the acknowledgment and take care!
To an extent I agree with Harvard. CWat is a blue overalls type player. Usually (please look up the definition of usually if you are illiterate), CW crashes the boards, does the hard work in the key and under the board, muscles with the other team’s for position… Clear enough. He’s also worked at developing a decent enough long range shot and some floor skills. Nothing Fred Astaire about Watford and, if you are a tuxedo type fan, I can understand that dancing with Watford is not the favorite part of your dance card. Now. Two years ago, this is what you had and hoped for.
Are there better,….perhaps better is not the best word, more stylish players on this IU team? Yes. Is there a significant ‘need’ for CWat and his blue overalls on this team. Absolutely. You better dance with him. Would this team win the B1G without Watford. Unlikely.
My issue over Watford is not, never has been, whether he played poorly against NC. And played- a good word here is ‘uninspired- at other games throughout his four year career at IU. Yes, he has at times played poorly and uninspired. But, ask yourself, are we (you) the kind of fan who always inspires?
Coach Crean and staff did the right thing. Bob Knight would have done the same thing. In fact, whenever you see the Landon Turner movie, never forget LT was within half an hour of of feeling the same wrath we are now pouring on CWat. However, to extend the amount and depth of bitter to CWat over one bad game as symptomatic of who the man is, to openly accuse him of having neither commitment nor heart openly demeans him and, in some cases, does so describing us as well. The descriptions I’ve read in some cases (those I take as coming from serious, IU fans, not silly, stupid wanabe Howard Cosells or Dickie V’s, do make me wonder if there’s some other agenda playing here.
Do what you want, but understand that the ideas we project of Hoosier athletics, of Hoosier Nation, of our support of our athletes during the good and the bad times are ultimately the foundation of how we are perceived by those who we may wish someday wear the candy stripes. It’s not just the miserable support we are giving Watford- when he needs our support Dumbo-, but also how we have addressed significant issues like Etherington, Davis, the kids from Cathedral we offered and other players when one day we support and celebrate them, and the next we suggest they take their act to the 10th Street Greyhound bus station on their way out-of-town.
I’m surprised, really surprised at the origin of some of these comments. But I’m also realistic and mature enough to understand just how badly some fans need for the Hoosiers to be a compelling luxurious highlight of their lives. Often, these are the most exposed to contagion from those who bring disease. And, that’s the problem with virus. It finds its way into the cell, cracks the outer cell, infects and spreads itself quickly.
In the end, we will have the team we deserve.
Mr. Watford, this Hoosier still thinks that you are a necessary and important part of whatever success we have a right to hope for.
Tsao – no one is bitter. We are stating that Watford isn’t playing well. It’s true. IT’S NOT JUST ONE GAME. You can say that all you want.. It’s not gonna make it true. I absolutely support Watford… I support him playing the proper role. I support him sticking to his strengths. I support him moving the ball to the other talented players on the team instead of forcing his own offense.
Apparently you aren’t watching the games, or maybe you just started watching after football season… Watford has had only 1 good game this year. I’m sorry you don’t believe in stats, but bth the stats and eyetest clearly show he isn’t playing well, especially on offense.
I will give him some kudos for his rebounding. As I’ve said, he has 2 strengths (well 3 if you count FT shooting) – position rebounding and shooting ‘open’ 3′s.
Posting up isn’t a strength. Breaking a man down off the bounce isn’t a strength. Taking a hard dribble into a pull-up jumper isn’t a strength.
He’s had ONLY 2 of 8 games where he shot better than 40%… It’s not because he’s missing open shots. Almost every shot he’s taking is forced. Go back and watch the tape like I do. Then, if you want, you can lie to yourself so you feel extra loyal and a real Hoosier… Or you can simply admit that Watford is struggling to adapt to all the talent around him, and the team’s decreasing offensive dependency on him.
No one is bitter Tsao. A little frustrated and/or willing to be honest about the situation… That’s all I’m reading.
I don’t know the stats and there probably isn’t a sampling large enough to be statistically significant but I still say he’s a much better player coming off the bench.
Might be a psychological thing, I don’t know, but he just looks more relaxed and into the flow. Perhaps, as a starter, he feels the need to establish the flow instead of matching it. That’s not his strong suit.
The thing is, and I’m confident CTC has been down this road more than once, it can’t be seen as a punitive measure. He’s on a team that’s about to be a dozen deep in its rotation. You can be sixth man and still be a draft pick. Coach Crean can work a player’s psyche with the best I’ve ever seen. Work CWat off the bench, convince him it’s a “change of pace” maneuver (which will all be true) and he could still be all Big Ten.
When you recruit the way CTC does you’d better be able to rationalize to a McDonald’s All American why it’s better for him to come off the bench.
It’s all good. CWat will come off the bench, put up a double double every game, shoot 55% for the first time ever, and hoist THE trophy.
So, since a couple of you guys asked, I missed the call from the neurosurgeon about my MRI results. I told everybody at his office to have him call my cell so he calls my office phone at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon and leaves a message that says we need to discuss options ASAP. It actually kinda shocked me that HE called and not his nurse or PA or something. That’s kinda different in my experience. Didn’t make for a very relaxing weekend. First thing tomorrow I’m returning his call, doncha know.
My mountain bike, however, is quite dead. I was CERTAIN the laws of gravity were not being strictly enforced in that spot. I was quite mistaken. Looking back, the drop was a good 16 feet, minimum. WTF was I thinking? I’ll be salvaging parts from the bike, that’s about it.
I’m pretty F’d Up as I type, but with a virtually unlimited supply of Percocet at this point in time. It really isn’t any fun. As I said before, worst case is I did in a couple lumbar vertebrae. Definitely got undo pressure on my spinal cord, which is very uncool.
Anyway, if I have to be decapitated or something, well, I just won’t post anymore. Otherwise I’ll keep you guys posted.
TTG, I love you, man, but what’s with taking stats so personally? IMHO, Geoff seems to be reasonably respectful to you.
He just seems to bug the pi$$ out of you and, for the life of me I don’t get why (I know his Florida State football BS is asinine but I forgive him).
Can you just start fresh with this? I’ll bet Geoff will. Let it go buddy, let it go.
On the plus side, the dude is a regular Wikipedia of IU basketball stats at our immediate disposal. How cool is that?
Dear Virus, you do have a problem with the Englsh language don’t you? The other day you had answered a post without reading the post. In this post no-pme said anything about being bitter, rather Re-read my use of the word ‘bitter’, as in ‘bitter’ spit, Virus:
“However, to extend the amount and depth of bitter to CWat over one bad game as symptomatic of who the man is…”
They really should have sent you to IU, virus.
You caught me Tsao… I pay much closer attention to the games than you do, and you pay much closer attention to your posts than I do…
Chet – I am very sorry to hear that man. I’m hoping it’s nothing that you can’t recover fully from and enjoy your life as you did before.
Last year’s NCAA championship team had a senior 6th man… A very talented player who came off the bench while young bucks started… He was instrumental in their success… He got plenty of crunch time minutes…. He accepted his role… Darius Miller was then drafted In the 2nd round by the Hornets and made the team.
There’s your perfect example Crean.
Have at it Chet. From his first (at least I think it was the first) the man’s credibility rings more than hollow and many of his statements have an odd but perceivable condescension towards Hoosiers and IU.
Anyhow, he is all yours. I really should stop worrying about what’s in my toilet and just flush it. I’ll not react to him again.
I would love for you to find one statement I’ve ever written on here (or anywhere ever) that had a condescending tone towards Hoosiers or IU.
The only odd thing is your perceptible inferiority complex. Why does such an intelligent, experienced, and accomplished individual as yourself always talk about how condescending I am.
Chet, just now read your #49…really sorry to hear that. Hope tomorrow you get good news.
Good luck, Chet.
Your seriously comparing Darius Miller coming off the bench of a completely stacked team of NBA top draft picks to Watford coming off the bench this Hoosier squad..?
I stick with Watford. I start him every game. I stay loyal to the guy that carried our team down the stretch last season and put us on his back in game against VCU when the dagger was halfway in our chest. I just don’t believe the level of effort/focus in question at this early stage of a season is worth destroying a loyalty and a faith in his ability to shake off the dust some bad outings.
UK 9-20 3-9 6-8 27
VCU 5-10 4-5 2-2 16
NMS 6-11 2-3 0-0 14
Totals: 20-41(.49) 9-17(.53) 8-10(.80) 57(19 ppg)
Do I truly care if CWat has a few inconsistent outings and some bumpy starts coming out of the gate early in the season?
Watford did plenty of heavy lifting when it was all on line. Hit the season-changing shot in December..Saved our ass against VCU…Managed to get 27 points against a UK team stacked with NBA talent. With Zeller and Oladipo getting in early foul trouble, we don’t even stay close in the Sweet 16 game without Watford.
A lot of guys can look like Fabio when the games are not stacked with momentous pressure. Watford is not a sixth man. He’s crunch time when its on the line.
If we truly watch these contests as intensely we sell ourselves on this blog as passionate IU fans, then shouldn’t we be able to see the value beyond the averages in a box score? The term “averages” in itself is removed from so many facets a players’ contributions and importance that may never show up in stat sheet. Chemistry and synergy…? Where is it found on stat sheet? Did Tom Crean use stats to throw Remy into the fire last year at West Lafayette? Were there stats to give precluding evidence he had no fear of big shots in big games? If you seal a defender off allowing a teammate to get the board, is it not your teammate that gets the rebound in his stat column.
How do you put a stat on composure and having the nuts to get up from the canvas when hit by a Mike Tyson uppercut? Watford has proven that he does not cower when the opponent is the most fierce in the ring. And for all the criticism his inconsistency comes an amazing fortitude to still believe in himself(despite the ongoing doubts from all angles choosing his nightly blemishes as the depository for ridicule and highlighting inconsistency that could easily move throughout all names on a roster), find a way back atop his game, keep his heart to press onward and improve, despite the fair-weather fans ready with shovels for every opportunity a spit on the grave a next scheduled burial.
They were ready to bury with their shovels last year..Watford whacked Geoff and many a pundit over the head with the shovels they used to predict Indiana losing to Kentucky at Assembly.
Harvard was at the funeral when Watford quietly, predictably, and with humble Hoosier heart, did all the burying.
Good luck with your recovery, Chet. You’re a tough cookie. I predict a full recovery and ass-kicking against any negative opinions arising from a doctor’s office. Keep your chin up.
Get well, Chet.
I’m not comparing anything… I was providing Chet with a story Cean could tell Watford if he wanted to move him to the 6th man role.
Chet, hope you are alright with the back thing. I started a couple years ago with issues and still am struggling. When it goes out it is the single most painful thing to ever hit me and it last for days…I am crooked, my kids think I look like an alien. Mine is a muscle thing though…years of abuse. I wish you a successful and speedy recovery. I now understand what my Grandma meant when I was a kid when she would say “if you don’t have your health, you have nothing”. It took me a long time to get that!!! At almost 37 now I start to pray I can work at my job until I am able to retire…it scares me!!! Let us know how it turns out…
Glad to hear it.
I think it would be very dangerous to start playing mind games with Watford and make the kid internalize a lost opportunity he could have had last season aimed at serious attempts to enter the draft. He finished very strong last year and it would only be natural for him to begin to wonder if he made the right choice to come back for another year(especially if his minutes and visibility is increasingly diminished into a bench player).
I’m sure he his primary focus is an NCAA title and making his team collectively stronger, but it would be hard to deny the symbolism of a diminished starting role(on a squad that contains no ‘sure things’ in terms of talent for a sustained level of future NBA success) could cause some serious anxiety in Christian. I’m not sure if he’s so off his game that you put a giant roadblock into his dreams only eight games into the season. I’m not sure that’s the proper medicine for a guy already accused of forcing things at times. I have more than enough confidence in Watford’s skills to believe it’s not the best thing for the Hoosiers going forward to abandoned confidence in him as a starter, plant seeds of doubt into his head, at this stage of his college career.
When I think of how long Crean stubbornly stuck with VJ(his starting role would have never been removed without the pure happenstance of an injury forcing Crean’s hand to play Remy), I see how Watford could begin to get frustrated in the changed strategies to resolve discipline/mistakes/effort on the court with this year’s squad. Inconsistency from the head coach would also contribute to forcing things on the floor. It would compound a kid’s own frustrations with his shots not falling, etc.
If I’m playing favorites this year, I’m playing them for Christian Watford with all the same blind hope I put into VJ. And after looking at the way Christian performed in the NCAA tournament, I do believe the blind faith is far more justified. There was plenty of options last season(Remy, Elston, Roth, Sheehey) to bench a senior for his glaring mistakes.
…to abandon confidence in him as a starter
Blind faith in the most inconsistent player we have?
Yeah, that makes sense.
I sit Watford and make him come off the bench…maybe not even the 6th man.
Make him mad.
That’s one thing Knight was great at. Get a player so pissed at him, he wanted to go on the court to kick butt just to stick it to Coach.
Crean should quit blowing sunshine up Watford’s butt and tell him he’ll never play in the NBA with the garbage he’s doing now.
Maybe your next sport of choice should be swimming. But I suppose then the sights at the pool will put your eyes in peril.
I am playing favorites too. CW is our 7th man and the next time he disappears it is while he is on the bench.
Knight always said the greatest motivator in the world is the bench.
Sit Wat until he pulls his head out of his butt.
Hillbilly cries about “loyalty.”
What the hell is that even supposed to mean? Because the kid played when the team sucked you should keep him out there now even when he plays like crap?
Crean is doing Wat a disservice by letting him get away with poor play.
If he was REALLY “loyal” to him, he’d do what’s in his best interest: Making him a better player.
Which means sitting him to light a fire under his butt.
Like he sat VJ, Knight-worshiper. The only way to explain rewarding the complete funk to the synergy of our team when Jones was on the court last year was beyond “loyalty.” It was just damn creepy weird.
Watford’s “poor play” will never amount in numbers to the excuses made for Jones.
Is Geoff ready to proclaim ‘WATFORD SUCKS!!’ as he did for Verdell last year? Sucking didn’t keep Jones off the floor. Where was the match to light fire under his butt? Where was the “best thing Crean can do for Jones is putting his ass on the pine and playing Remy?”
I remember all the cries from many on this blog(including Dustin in LiveChats) that the ridiculing had gone too far with Verdell. When does it go too far for Watford? When does the public criticism of a guy that has represented the cream and crimson with nothing but class and dignity, put our team on his shoulders in numerous big games throughout his career, become unwarranted and vicious?
The only thing that’s a “cancer” is the desire to find a rope for every next popular witch hunt exaggerating the lulls of talented Hoosier.
Ignorance. Same as the ignorance in calling Jordy the worst defender in all of college basketball. The kid has worked hard, but he is also reaping the benefits of finally playing with another talented and unselfish guard on the floor. Without Yogi, Hulls wouldn’t look like the garbage he was labeled last season transformed into the Steve Nash that all are sending him loving praises this year.
And because of the speed transformation Yogi brings to the floor, many others on the roster(including Sheehey)are looking like NBA All-Star material in some of these blowout contests.
Maybe there’s a bit of getting carried away in their successes that adds to the dumping on Watford for his few sluggish outings.
If I saw it right, in the last game CWat missed his first two shots and passed the ball on the third.
1..Possible solution, unless he is within 3′ of the basket, he should not be allowed to shoot on his first touch of the ball.
2..He seems more motivated when coming off the bench.
3..When shooting 1 of 9 he needs to accept that and change his play, closer to the basket and draw the fouls. Rebounding and foul shot percentage is his strength so far this season.
4..He is a big-game guy, so be it.
Watford has taken his starting spot for granted.
That’s the LAST thing the team needs.
And quit acting like we want him kicked off the team, Drama Queen.
The only thing being taken for granted is Watford’s value.
When our guards face bigger bodies and athletic defenders the likes of Aaron Craft, then it will once again be the versatility of Watford that will keep us in games.
Watford will prove his value when a higher level of competition steps up.
When are we going to see Cody stretch his game out farther from the basket as so many anticipated we would see with the arrival of Yogi? Answer: It’s not that simple being a Christian Watford.
Great players do not wait for “higher level of competition” to play well/give all their effort.
Watford SUCKS! And Geoff found puppy love with the new and improved VJ!
Why is making CWat come off the bench such a big deal? Would it be for Jordy, Vic, Will, Remy.
Nobody bats an eye if Will or Vic come off the bench. Why can’t CWat be treated like everyone else?
If it’s because he is too emotionally fragile to come off the bench, then I don’t want him in the game at all.
Hillbilly whines about “loyalty” like that should mean more than playing who deserves it.
How is Crean going to “build loyalty” with the other players when he tells them, “Your effort is what gets you on the floor” and then plays a guy only because he’s been there longer?
Well, you won’t hear “Watford sucks!” from me because I don’t believe that. I thought we were better when Jones was injured last year. I think Watford makes this team better, he is just struggling to understand how he fits now. I thought Jones made our team worse.
Now, while I’m still undecided on whether Wat should be starting right now, I am in no way pushing for him to get fewer minutes. I thnk Watford should get between 25-30 minutes per night, including crunch time… I’m just not sure 5 of those minutes should be at the start of the game.
Harvard’s argument for CWat is eloquent and, mostly, impeccable. Particularly if you look at the string of the three (#58,#63 and #68) together.
Ti begin with CWat needs not be defended. He had a very bad game. IU won that game by 30+-. There are players that take a bit longer to get themselves acclimated to a season, even- in some ways- acclimated to their own bodies and rythm, both physically and mentally. I believe that CWat is one of those. Just as great runner may trail a lap, sprint to the lead (to measure their own sprint)over 200 yards, drop back to the middle in the third lap and begin a move into the fourth lap.
CWat did not play well against NC, even by his standards. Rather than guess why or read intentions or focus, I accept that. I’m nearly sure that is what the coaches are thinking.
It may even be a good idea to have CWat watch a game for four-five minutes before going in, especially since the Hoosiers are a team that plays people in and out for blocks of times. Starting means nothing. But having a chance to take the temperature of the game, see the parts on both sides, and ‘feel’ the game’s pace and cadence may be invaluable to Watford, and perhaps others. Comfort, not just with the opponent and with one’s own team, but with one’s self as well during a game is a huge part of a ‘flowing’ uninterrupted game like basketball or soccer (and I suppose hockey, team handball and water polo).
Here’s another concern of how we fans are handling CWat’s bad game. Coach Crean has been absolutely masterful at creating a ‘team’ culture of individuals who obviously like each other, have a feeling of ‘one for all and all for one’-yeah,…I know Alexander Dumas used that one before) that leaves no one excluded. When parts need fixing they are fixed as part of the team. That is true of how VJ was approached last year, it was true of how TC dealt with some physical issues presented by Jordan Hulls’ and is now true of a different set of issues with CWat. But, change the nature of this team by isolating or focusing any one part and the magic that is the clearest identifier of this team disappears.
There is no problem with CWat from the standpoint of this team and, importantly, its coaches and members. There are only issues for the coaches to deal with and for the fans to enjoy watching as they are resolved.
Chet. You probably don’t want to blap it to the world, but I hope your conversation w/ the Doctor Re;. results was positive. Make that a “positive” conversation about “negative” results.
Amen, Geoff. Now you’re talkin’. I agree with your conclusion that he’s struggling a bit with the “fit.” I also believe that changes depending on the opponent and the match-ups.
Watford is not fragile. Nor do I believe he’s ever shown that he is an exceedingly selfish player..Does he take bad shots and force issues at times? Yes. Is it possible some of that offensive “forcing” of his game is a result of attempting to counter the detractors that often pigeonhole him with claims he’s lacking aggressiveness going to the basket? And you’re right, Geoff..Going hard to the basket(deep into the lower paint) is not his game.
And if he was selfish(in terms of seeking to be a “one man unstoppable show” of sorts), then I certainly don’t believe the natural human tendency would be less effort in a final curtain season so important to his future and playing at the next level.
He’s had a few bumpy games. Big deal. If his shot was falling we wouldn’t be hearing any of this bandwagon “discipline his ass” malarkey. He’s never been a player that exaggerates the emotions on the floor or the body language to sell the level of heart in the game. I don’t believe that equates into not caring about his team or teammates.
Thanks, Tsao..I also believe much of your assessment is right on target…27+ games is a long grinding campaign. Watford is a seasoned enough athlete to know his own body and how that translates to his size of frame and enduring the demands of a physical Big 10 season on the horizon. Talking from the stands about lack of effort is nothing but cheap talk. You can’t have a 6-9 frame and play every possession like Tijan Jobe with a bumblebee nest in jock. You have to cheat the exhaustion, maintain your control, deceive and “lull” your defender, play it low key at times, while keeping enough in the tank to not loose your legs, your crisp passes, and your confidence in your good stroke from the perimeter.
If Wat can’t handle a 27 game season, why is he even thinking about the NBA?
We all have our dreams.
I’m not sure if Watford has the explosiveness for the NBA game. He has his strengths at this level, but I’m beginning to waver and have my doubts he can garner many minutes in the NBA. He may end up being another DJ White.
And I didn’t say he couldn’t handle it from an endurance standpoint hard-nosed, Knight-worshiper. I said he knows the pace for his body and how he feels to move through different intensities at different stages in the season. He knows when he’s ready to throttle it up in a game or lay off the gas a bit when the legs are still lagging behind the best feel in a jumper.
I’m sure the NBA has top trainers and development personnel that play big roles in conditioning and acclimating young men to the crazy demands of that schedule. The demands have not been real kind to even those appearing as strong and fit as Eric Gordon. Then again, money always wins out and the long schedule is more about lining pocketbooks of NBA and ESPN execs than it’s ever been about any concern for the revolving door of millionaires; objectifying gifted athletes as if they were no different than an overly pushed high-priced thoroughbred horse injected with constant pain killers and hormones to survive the selfish demands our thirst for more at the expense the longevity and long term health an athlete.
I know you aren’t accusing me of this, but just to make it clear…
I am not, and I have stated this several times, accusing Watford of playing without effort
I am not saying, nor have I ever believed, that Watford is a selfish player
(I doubt he is trying to prove the detractors wrong…)
Harvard… I would bet that the majority of things that athletes put in their bodies are done so personally, and without the knowledge of team officials.
Is Hillbilly calling ME a “Knight-worshipper”?
Damn, I knew he was a moron but…..wow.
You really ARE desperate for attention, aren’t ya pumpkin?
And since you brought up Knight’s discipline techniques, then maybe we should also discuss Knight’s view on overly extending seasons…It’s well documented that Knight voiced disapproval against the Big 10 tournament. He made it be known he felt it was completely unnecessary and put added physical demands, forcing college athletes to play in a conference tournament, immediately after a long conference regular season.
He always felt it was solely about the money and didn’t have the student-athlete’s best interest at hand. Winning that tournament means nothing. I almost hope for bowing out early so guys can get a mental break and some needed rest heading into the only tournament that’s worth a pot to piss in.
Why don’t we discuss how you’re the dumbest person on earth for calling me a Knight-worshipper just because I exposed you as an idiot for whining about Watford?
Why is he the only one “pacing himself” for the season?
Sit him like Knight sat Landon Turner…Put him in the doghouse….blah..blah…blah.
So far from the truth..It was Ray Tolbert that turned things around for Landon Turner.
Always knew you were a closet Knight butt-muncher. I think you’re 4guards. 4guards would have never drifted quietly into the night. You post just like the guy with all your concise little brilliant digs and tasteless insults. You probably have a life-size poster of Bobby, your favorite tyrant to emulate, mounted to a mirrored ceiling in the master suite that Vegas love paradise you bring all those Chippendale’s back to.
Understood. I agree with you..It’s learning the role and finding the proper fit to utilize his strong suit amongst the changing dynamics and new options on the floor. You’re 110% correct. And within that dynamic still being discovered, out came the creepy crawlers to bury the guy with “slacker” labels because of some sluggish outings and some cold shooting nights. I’m not accusing you of questioning Watford’s effort, but I think it’s pretty apparent that many bandwagon haters are exactly partaking in the lowlife opportunity to do so on this forum and some of the LiveChats during games.
It’s free speech. If they want to paint him as an unfocused and selfish lazy bum(much like they painted Hulls as a totally inept defender when he had no complimentary equal talent in the backcourt), then it’s only their own fair-weather loose words they’ll soon be eating.
Ron, posted on another thread, but I’m great. Still going under the knife but not “The Big Surgery”. If I was walking, I’d be dancing. It’s all good. Thanks for asking.
There wasn’t any roll to fit in last year but he suffered periods of non-energetic play then too. This year mirrors last year. Except this year Crean has options. One of those options took place to start of the game against Sam Houston State. It took place again with who defended McAdoo in the 2nd half of the UNC game. Good to see Coach Crean is not afraid to exercise those options.
And you’ll eat your words just as you did last season when you were poised with your shovel attempting to bury his season for some bad games. Bandwagon hater. Do the same with all players, Clarion. The only option currently being employed is your option in attempting to never admit you were wrong about Watford last season.
And you’ll be wrong again this season.
They all have bad games. Zeller has not always looked stellar. Bench Cody. Sure that was a bad cold? Sure he wasn’t just loafing? Is he soft? I’m not sure if Cody will ever get mean and dirty on the boards like he needs to be…I think Knight would have benched Cody numerous times already.
And where was the benching of VJ last year?
Even if it was an effort issue, wouldn’t it be great to see a coach employ a firm hand of discipline with consistency instead of following drumbeats of haters and doubters?
Only happenstance(Remy getting minutes because of an injured “chosen one”) and Watford’s big-time performances saved our ass from a season ending in typical one-and-done fashion Knight’s many NCAA opening rounds in the latter his career.
You won’t see any examples come Big 10 season. Watford is too valuable and I’ll be feeding you your pudding.
Never. Disappearing is CW’s M.O., just like last year. The difference is when the others have a bad game they still display high energy and need no motivation. He always needs motivated. I have no doubt he will light it up from time to time but consistently, never.
Look at the numbers for everyone, Clarion. This team does not have a player that “lights it up” every game “consistently.” Once in a blue moon a couple guys will have decent back-to-back games(as Watford and Hulls often did last season – many times finding their hotness and coldness operating in a strange parallel unison).
I admire you for your stubbornness. I just don’t think Watford is a loafer. I don’t think that label is fair ..Inconsistency is closer to fair as long as you’re willing to see how we really don’t have a true dominant talent on this team(a guy that can put up big numbers on his first season in the NBA..e.g Eric Gordon) that’s going to bring you big box score numbers nearly every night. Crean hasn’t built that type of team.
I do like the way you qualified your criticisms and covered your butt with the “he will light it up from time to time.”….Care to narrow down that definition into percentages and points? How many games of “lighting it up” will he need to not get the label of loafer? Does he need a certain amount of buckets and boards? Do assists count as not being a loafer? Does he need to hit a certain percentage to not be a loafer? If he dives all over the floor, pulls down 8 rebounds, pukes his guts out on Don Fischer at the press table, but goes 1 for 6 from the field in 30 minutes is he still a loafer?
There’s always going to be inconsistencies, Clarion. Hulls had some miserable games last season. Remy(I love the kid) has had some very ugly sequences tin games this season o go along with the hot hand from the perimeter. But you know why I stick with them? They’re born ballers. They don’t fear the moment. And they don’t play selfishly or carry themselves like they’re the next best thing since sliced bread. They’re good Hoosiers and good young men. They’ve brought this Hoosier fan too much joy to feel it’s fair to throw them under the bus for some inconsistencies. I refuse to believe they’re are purposefully not putting out an honest effort to be the best they can be for their teammates. They’ve been through too much to together, too many embarrassments and butt-kickings, to disrespect each other at that level of selfishness.
Sorry, you can have your opinion. It’s not one I’m willing to apply to Christian Watford. I don’t see his lulls as being a result of not caring or a laziness that could be dysfunctional to the team.
I don’t think CWat loafs. I do think that he has to be put in the right position to look his best and I think, overall, CTC has done a masterful job of doing that.
Does he shut down athletic bigs? Maybe not. Can he shut down top quality point guards? Sometimes. The real art is to get the most out of his talents.
CTC has gotten him to be a strong rebounder. That was a knock on him.
He’s a real enigma. He doesn’t have that quick first step to the basket, yet he can guard the point. He can’t always match up against quality bigs but his stat line will show 11 rebounds. He’ll shoot air balls or be the best three point shooting forward in the country.
I think he is a vital cog in the Big Red Machine. Does that mean he should start every game ‘just cause’?
Not to me.
This is the perfect example of why really good coaches get paid a lot of money. Nobody recruits more ‘head cases’ than UNC and they usually find a way to make it work.
The dude that throws out “festering pus” a gazillion times is crying about “tasteless insults”?
You truly are a “donkey.”
Poor widdle Hillbilly. I ignore him for a few days and he SNAPS because he NEEDS me to talk to him sooooooooooo much so his life feels complete he gets SO DESPERTE, he starts calling me a “Knight worshipper” and “4 guards.”
I don;t know if I should be honored or scared you NEED my attention so badly.
And I don’t believe you like Watford anyway. You’re just a flaming racist who says he likes him so you can say, “See, I like a black player too.”
If you took off your white hood so you could see better, you’d know Wat has had much more than “a couple” bad games, Grand Dragon.
And who gives a flying %$#@ what “you” think about him loafing when even Crean himself said the guy needs to work on his consistency?
If we said the sky was blue, you’d start stomping your feet saying that was just an illusion because you’re such an attention-whore.
Go burn another cross, redneck.
Oh Jesus… Another Hatfield just fired a shot.
Harvey, OK, you caught me, I misspoke, we’ll have it your way, “he won’t light it up”. But coaching staffs, just like anyone in authority, gravitate and offer opportunities to achievers who do not need to be personally motivated to achieve, like RA, Hollowell and Will. + 3 more are soon to be available for the dance card. He is being looked at as more work than any of the others. And he is a Senior with no more future after the season is over. So spend as much time as you possibly can exalting CW for the headlines of yesteryear because lighting it up is going to get dimmer and dimmer in the rear view mirror. If he would just put forth energy at the rate and consistency of the rest of his teammates I would bitch not. I’ll be looking forward to the exaltations. Just try not to wear out the American language in doing so.
Saying Wat is “pacing himself for the long season” is about as retarded as it gets.
We’ve got 3 front court guys out who will be playing soon and taking LOTS of minutes so Wat won;t need to “pace himself” for that….he’ll have LOTS of opportunity to rest.
We needed him to bust his butt the first 9 games.
NBA scouts notice that.
The LAST thing they want is a marginal player like him who needs baby-sat all the time.
He could have been a late first rounder but will be lucky to go in the second round. Luckily for him, the draft is very weak this year and some teams might use a pick on a tall dude that can shoot 3′s for late game situations.
Former Indiana forward Jeremy Hollowell will finish his collegiate career at Georgia State. The news was first reported by Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports and a source close to
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