Live Discussion: Indiana vs. Butler

102 comments by   |   Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 2:24 pm EDT

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Purdue vs. Indiana alumni game this Saturday
Oladipo, Zeller named to USA Select Team
IU target Spalding commits to Louisville
Crean putting together vision for guard-oriented team
Spalding enjoying IU, recruiting process
102 comments:
#1
Geoff
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 5:45 PM EDT

I’m not just saying this for effect… I would be more upset if IU had won that game. What a gross mental effort by most of the players and the coaching staff.

Happy for Yogi. That shot should help his confidence.

Composure in the second half of 3rd graders.

Other than Dipo, no one played “well”.

A win would have covered up some warts. Now they’ll have to face all the facts.

 
#2 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 5:51 PM EDT

Can anyone tell me why Hulls is on the floor our last defensive possession of the game and not Zeller?

 
#3
Ron
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 5:57 PM EDT

Toss up between the free throws and not stopping the drives to the basket. Butler looks good. Who knows but I don’t think the cupcake schedule helped. Cody taking a beating in there, not knocking him but he hit the floor four times at least. Lot of shots taken that normally would have gone. Something like 10 minutes with on field goal. Bet practice is going to focus on some different things. In the long run this may be a good loss for the Hoosiers and if we have to have a loss, Butler is good. Keep it in state I guess.

 
#4
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 5:59 PM EDT

Awful.

For countless reasons.

And I agree with Geoff.

 
#5
Double Down
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 5:59 PM EDT

Jordan Hulls continues to be one of the worst on-ball defenders in the NCAA. A walk-on blew past him for the winning shot.

This team has to get tougher on D. No blocking out, too much miscommunication or no communication on help-D (except for the last 2 min of regulation) and Butler just got too many easy looks off of 2nd chances.

If I am a Big Ten coach, I’m studying this game film and preparing exactly as Butler played us today.

Sad that we couldn’t beat a team with 3 out of 5 of its starting lineup fouled out of the game.

 
#6
coachv
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:16 PM EDT

i agree with aruss. allegedly the best center in the country not in the game for butler’s last possesion? he could have protected the basket on the last butler basket. what, crean put all guards out there? stupid.

also, no effort to get the ball to zeller in the last minutes with all of butler’s bigs fouled out. pathetic coaching. also on zeller for not posting up. he needs some post moves and a higher release point inside.

 
#7 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:16 PM EDT

Don’t give the worst title on this team to Hulls so easily because whoever Watford guarded each possession usually scored. If he played with half the energy of Oladipo and half the basketball IQ of Hulls, he’d be unstoppable. Instead he’s just a maddening enigma.

 
#8
Podunker
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:17 PM EDT

OUCH! That was painful. They had a week to prepare and all that produced was bad shooting, lack of hustle for rebounds, and terrible defense in the paint. IU got out-hustled and outplayed.

IU is definitely not the same team when playing outside Assembly Hall. And how do they lose after three of Butler’s top players foul out of the game? Cody should have taken the last ten shots of the game after Butler’s third player fouled out.

Did anyone else see Hulls shove his teammate after the game was over? Not good.

 
#9
phenomenal1
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:37 PM EDT

The lack of effort on the glass was maddening, I don’t know how many times I saw someone just watch as Butler hustled for every ball. Which is one reason I really respect butler, they play hard and don’t lay down for anybody. But, how do we get outrebounded with the length and athleticism we have? Did anybody see a graphic showing their second chance points compared to ours? I’m sure it is ridiculous.

 
#10
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:40 PM EDT

Looks like I was right afterall about Jordy and Yogi not being able to be on the court at the same time for D.

And right about Watford being lazy.

And right how I think we’ll be better next year because of the rebounding.

Maybe now they’ll knock of their “3 fingers to the temple” crap and just play ball.

Zeller isn’t leaving early if he keeps playing like that.

 
#11
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:45 PM EDT

Not only is that kid a walk-on, he’s only scored 12 points the whole season.

How many 3′s did Jordy even try?

 
#12
Bombay Sapphire
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:49 PM EDT

Who do you think knows Zeller’s game better than anyone? The coaching staff. All the pundits and outsiders looking in have bought into all the media write ups that Zeller is the best player in the country. That just isn’t true. Is he the best 7 footer? Yes. Does he help his team immensely? Yes. But is he going to take over a game, just lob it to him and let him ‘go to work’? No, he doesn’t have that kind of game…at all. People complaining about how he was being used? Screw that…he played 37 minutes and had 5 rebounds…5. Butler had 4 kids with 5 or more rebounds. I don’t think he’s overrated but for fans who think it should just be the Cody Zeller show, they clearly don’t see the deficiencies in his low post game. As an IU fan I’m ok with this loss, didn’t like the cockiness of Oladipo lately. Plus its back to what really matters: not being ‘ranked #1′….winning the B1G

 
#13 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:52 PM EDT

I use to think Laffy was an internet troll but after watching this game he’s been spot on. I won’t doubt him again.

 
#14
Bombay Sapphire
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 6:52 PM EDT

Laffy you weren’t right about anything. The team losing doesn’t mean you are right. If they had won would you have been ‘wrong’ about all those things? Sorry but Watford is lazy win or lose, thats why he was still available back during the Crean crisis year, big time schools didn’t like his motor.

 
#15
Chet
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 7:15 PM EDT

Bad play in lots of areas. Too bad we won’t go undefeated. Meaningless non-conference loss.

If we were gonna lose a game this is as good as any. It exposed our flaws and really let the guys know what they need to improve on to win important games.

Nice three by Yogi but it was one of the few bright spots in his game today. I hate to be down on him but he had a pretty bad game. He wasn’t alone. Despite that one trey, Butler really played good perimeter defense. Obviously, Coach Stevens decided he was going to lose because of the three. They also did a good job down low. Every funny bounce seem to have Butler’s name on it.

Interesting stat about how the number one team usually gives up its first loss to an unranked team.

I kinda wrote this one off at the 7 minute mark. IU just didn’t look like the team that was gonna win.

That game is, and will continue to be, more important to Butler than to IU.

 
#16
Geoff
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 7:26 PM EDT

Double Down – as frustrating as that game was, and regardless of what I said in my first post… I will continue to defend Hulls’ defense.

Your statement that a walk-on “blew past him for the winning shot” is completely inaccurate.

I’m not sure if you’re trolling for a response, but if you’re trying to make an honest criticism feel free to watch the play again… Jordy cut him off going left and forces him to come to a complete stop. Barlow picks up his dribble 13 feet from the basket, inside the FT dotted circle. He then reverse spins back to the right and no one helps. A 10 foot, off-balance, one-handed push shot from a walk-on is exactly what I’d want if I were Jordy. Especially after guarding him for 75 feet and 15 seconds by myself.

The 2 errors were:

1) like Coachv said, Cody was not in the game to protect the rim
2) no one helped when Jordy forced Barlow to spin back

There is a lot more to say about Cody’s play and the decision-making from the start of the second half on, but I’ll have to get back to that later…

Wifey got us tix to some Xmas burlesque show in Portland.

Y’all have fun tonight.

 
#17
coachv
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 7:33 PM EDT

podunk

it was creek that hulls shoved after the game

 
#18
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 7:38 PM EDT

BS—

You guys keep crying “one bad game” when it’s been way more than one.

Our players act like because they can dunk and rain 3′s on a bunch of nobodies, they’re “THE MAN” and start flashing their private “gang signals” thinking they’re tough.

They got punched in the mouth today and never responded.

Cody had zero fouls…which means he wasn’t aggressive….and only 5 rebounds when 5 guys on their team did the same…and they weren’t on all the covers before the season.

And he only shot it 9 times.

I’ll be GLAD when Watford is gone because the guys coming in are HUNGRY.

Jordy, LOVE the kid, but he gets abused on defense. That walk-on took it coast to coast and schooled him. A SENIOR.

Oh, and there’s something else I was right about too: Losing Patterson killed us a LOT more than if Hollowell had left.

He plays defense like someone slapped his mom.

 
#19
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 8:01 PM EDT

Comments from Crean:

Said environment was good for IU because Purdue, Butler, ND fans made it like a road environement.

“The bottom line for us, we didn’t rebound the ball well enough today. … Our communication was sporadic.”

(On Cody Zeller) “I know he’s got to get more than five rebounds.” Said he was happy with how hard Zeller played, getting to the line, battle the contact and those things.

“Our spirit wavered a little bit with the score.”

“I’m excited about the rebounding drills we’re going to do. I’m not sure there will be many people sharing that joy with me, but I know I’ll be excited about it because right now, that’s an area we have to shore up for ourselves.”

“This came down to communication, some defensive mistakes and we didn’t rebound for 45 minutes like we need to … We weren’t good enough on the backboard today.”

Said IU went small at the end without Zeller on the floor to defend the ball screen they’d been running and not risk getting into a switch that would be bad for IU.”

(On Butler’s two late 3s): “We went under screens, miscommunicated … They made the plays, but we made the mistakes defensively.”

(On the full-court pressure late in regulation that helped IU rally and force OT): “If I have one regret right now, it’s not going to that earlier.”

(On Yogi’s tying 3 late in regulation): “That’s Yogi being Yogi.”

“Our practices will be fierce now.”
********************

Well, if he wants a “road atmosphere” he should schedule more tough games on the road. And still wasn’t anything close to a real road game and half the people there cheered for us.

As I said, I think we’ll be better next year because of the rebounding. 3 studs coming in that rebound like crazy.

Loved the last line from Crean.

If the team learns from this, and comes out HUNGRY, it will be the best thing that happened to us.

 
#20
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 8:36 PM EDT

We got the Kiss of Death from Seth Davis because yesterday he said we’d be the last undefeated team.

 
#21 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 9:22 PM EDT

Another week off between games cost us. Zeller must start taking more 10-13 foot turnarounds. Too predictable when getting the ball, he’s goin to the basket,

 
#22 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 9:26 PM EDT

I agree on Zeller having 0 fouls. My philosophy is that a player should be getting more physical as the game progresses, and should end the game with at least 2 fouls.

 
#23
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:08 PM EDT

I’m guessing they had Finals too so you can’t blame it on losing a week.

Don’t know Crean can say they had “great energy” when they got abused on the board.

 
#24
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:09 PM EDT

Some thoughts. First, Laffy, impressive. More than one of us glad you’re now focused on the core here. Solid comments.

The bad part, much deeper than I thought it would be.

Rebounding was horrible, especially under our own defensive backboard. How many o.r.’s did Butler collect? Awful. Yeah, Coach Crean, maybe Yogi was Yogi for that one ’3′, but Yogi was Yogi for much of the game too. He needs to play within himself. He is a freshman, weeks separated from being in high school.

The good news…no longer so concerned with the NBA in regards to anyone in particular. The other good news, we are getting near the point (I hope) when we get Derek Elston back. I’d forgotten how much we miss his ‘presence’, especially in games like tonight’s. He’ll be absolutely fundamental to the Big Ten season when most games will be like this one.

Zeller…two weeks ago Watford got a mouthful. Watford has to understand how important he is and control his tendency to get down on himself. Amd, understand that the more he allows the depression to take him over, the more he’ll play like this. Look Christian, the only thing at stake is…your career, so relax. Zeller…passive…this week’s Watford from the NC game? Uninvolved, distant, disappeared…(except for maybe the last minute or so). But, of course, he won’t get the treatment.

Thank the round ball gods for Remy. Without him, this is a regulation 10 point game. Remy is the guy you want in the fox hole. Oladipo as well. For the rest, and for what seemed like an unprepared Hoosier team, definitely not a top ten performance.

Butler?… Is the gentleman who wrote the comment last week protesting the fact that Butler fans seem unwilling to assume their #2 role still in the state?. Butler seemed much more in the tradition of Indiana basketball than we did; at least, for this particular performance. We’ve got to applaud the Bulldogs, their coach and “the Butler Way” basketball. They earned it tonight.

If nothing else, hit the free throws…nothing but the barn wall for those. At least learn that.
Perhaps, for us, at least from all the premature commentary celebrating this ‘championship season’, the expectation that the shirt that reads ‘Indiana’ alone does it won’t do it either against Butler or in the B1G.

Time to go back to school…and reality.

 
#25
Chet
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:11 PM EDT

Larry, I tend to agree. Cody has gotten one dimensional around the basket. Guys are starting to sag because they are pretty sure he’s not going to pull up and shoot when he’s perfectly capable of doing it.

I’m glad the guys weren’t classless jerks like the Kaintuck players when they whined about losing because of “one lucky shot” when we beat them last year after leading the whole game. Their lack of character is following them around.

Our Hoosiers played poorly and lost a meaningless game in front of everybody. I’m betting this gives them that edge back that they obviously need.

I was pretty sure we weren’t going undefeated this year.

 
#26
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:19 PM EDT

Zeller didn’t make a basket the entire second half. Wow.

 
#27
Bombay Sapphire
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:40 PM EDT

IU never said Zeller was it’s go to guy. Crean never said that, it was outside talking heads that said all that stuff. Zeller is not a dominant player, how much more evidence do we need. He is not the go to guy. Its clear if people watch the game without reading headlines all week. Laffy I would agree with some of your thoughts except when you said they got punched in the mouth and ‘didn’t respond’ they absolutely did respond and nearly fought back to win the game. “not responding” would’ve been coasting to a 8-10 point loss. IU isnt the best team in the country, they never were, there isn’t a ‘best team’ right now. F the #1 ranking, it doesn’t mean anything thankfully because the tourney means everything. Oh, so does the B1G which IU is not the favorite for in my opinion. IU is really good. So is the B1G lets not forget that.

 
#28
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:57 PM EDT

Bombay…do believe Laffy is right on this point. Butler punched us in the mouth and we did not respond. I haven’t seen them to count, but look at the rebounds – where the expression best describes the game- and I’ll guarantee that we just put our hands up to our lips and worried about the orthodontia.

 
#29
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:03 PM EDT

One point before I forget it. Hulls does not play basketball, he suffers it. His gesture (at Creek, of all people) is inexcusable and worrisome.

The one thing you could always love about this team is how they felt about each other and what a great ‘Band of Brothers’ they had become. Hope Hulls didn’t kill the feeling with his ‘rage’. More than anything, what set them apart was that feeling about each other.

 
#30 Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:25 PM EDT

Andy – if you are reading this, please write a Sage post about this game to give us perspective. Dustin’s lame who, what, where and when posts ain’t cuttin’ it.

 
#31
Laffy
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:26 PM EDT

What did Jordy actually do?

And I wonder if that’s why he wasn’t part of the group taking questions after the game.

I read Crean took over an hour before he took questions so hopefully that was being addressed.

Olidipo said a couple times “We have to stay together” so I’m guessing it was.

 
#32
Chet
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:38 PM EDT

You guys are pretty bent about an overtime loss to a pretty good team when we couldn’t his free throws.

Sure, the guys are pi$$ed off but you all act like it’s the end of the world.

Spoiled?

 
#33
Mumbai Padparadscha
Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:52 PM EDT

I agree with Laffy. This loss can be a tremendous blessing, in disguise, but only if we understand its true meaning.

 
#34
IULONGAGO
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:02 AM EDT

Our walk-on couldn’t defend their walk-on. Our go-to guys were defended and their go-to guys weren’t. Illinois beat Butler very badly on a neutral court. If IU didn’t realize how hard Butler was going to come at them, that’s a problem. A lot of other teams are going to come at them hard too. If their defense doesn’t get “much” better, they’re not winning the Big Ten or the NCAA Tournament. Defense is extremly important in both. They scored over 90 points against Kentucky and lost. They scored 86 against Butler and lost. Offense can come and go. Defense is the one thing a team can do consistently. They’ve got to do it.

 
#35
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:02 AM EDT

Chet…I’m fine, I don’t see anything particularly egregious. Most of what I read from Laffy is also good analysis, in my view.

I don’t even think we need to be concerned, either with the team or with the reaction to the loss. I always thought we’d lose about half a dozen games this season (and possibly half of those, for the same reasons)as part of a process. With Hulls, it’s always been about a feeling that he’s ‘suffering’ the game rather than playing it. Tonight, at the end was a bit more pronounced. I just caught an instant of a scene on screen where someone (MC, I found out later)walks up to him and he shoves him away. As a team leader he should control that.

At least, in my part, I’m making nothing other than the fact that we lost to a team that played better (and probably a bit more relaxed) than we did today. Butler is a damned good team, probably because they are good enough to set their control and make us play to their game. I don’t think the comments here say anything other than what they say. (In general, Hoosiers are pretty sophisticated basketball cogniscenti.

Perhaps, I can come up with something more radical and provocative later, as I think about it…uhh, I know!…I don’t like the way Crean drinks water…too fast and gulpy…feels like he’s trying to make himself burp!

DD, the following comes to mind: “You can please some people some of the time but you can’t please others….ever!” Nahh,…I think Aruss is just being honest about his preference and not malicious.

 
#36
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:02 AM EDT

Chet—

I’d say not rebounding hurt us more than the free throws…..and so does Crean. It was a joke.

No way in hell we should have lost after their 3 guys fouled out.

And why wasn’t Jordy shooting? I mean, if he can’t guard his guy, the least he could do is score…ort why else have him out there?

 
#37
iamahoosier
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:41 AM EDT

Anyone have any idea why Jurkin and Perea played a total of 1 min today? I’ve been looking forward to their return and joining the rotation for 9 games and then they don’t participate?
If they have been practicing this whole time they should have been ready to go and the way we were getting beat on the boards I have to think we could have used them.
Couldn’believeve no one asked Crean the question after the game!

 
#38
RAM
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 9:57 AM EDT

Everyone has been patting them on the back and telling them how great they are. I heard on the radio the other day that their strength of schedule to this point was two hundred and thirty something.This loss will bring them back down to earth and help them refocus. Coach Crean has done an excellent job rebuilding this program but there are times when he definitely walks to the beat of a different drummer.

 
#39
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:53 AM EDT

The Nutcracker Burlesque was…. A treat. If you can get away with going to one with your significant other I recommend it.

Tsao – we agree again… Uh-oh.

Laffy – thank you. Even though there is 1 part of your analysis I don’t agree with, it’s great to get this version of you.

Chet – the #1 team losing to unranked teams is absolutely an interesting stat. Totally makes sense too. That is what happens when a very capable team gets really focused to play the giant, while the giant is just preparing for another game on the schedule. As you suggested, this isn’t the end of the word by any stretch… It ain’t football.

My overall impression of the game was that both teams played hard, but only one team played smart. I was not frustrated by anyone’s effort at all (well maybe Crean’s a bit)… But I just thought their composure and decision-making were brutal.

Zeller… I’m not sure if he deserves criticism, but it’s certainly time to talk about where he is at in his development. I kept hearing about the 15 pounds of muscle he put on this summer… About how he grew an inch… About how he worked on his perimeter game to be able to attack from different positions. Well, to be honest, I haven’t seen a tremendous improvement from last year.

Last year what were his strengths? Demeanor, passing, running the floor, FT shooting, bball IQ

This year his strengths are about the same, minus the FT shooting…

He still gets pushed around. He still has a hard time finishing through contact. He still doesn’t rebound at a high rate, he still hasn’t diversified his offense in any noticeable way.

I guess I can sum it up in one sentence: Cody Zeller does not play like a MAN.

Which is ok. He has time to get better. By all accounts he cares. Look at how his brother grew into a great player his senior year. He was a big strong man. I hope we get to see that version of Cody.

Now on to the decision making… What a pathetic job of attacking their weaknesses at the end of the game. Both offensively and defensively.

Offense – our strength lined up perfectly with their weakness because of foul trouble and we couldn’t capitalize. I counted 3 times where Cody was posting up a guy about 6’5″ and the guards just gave him a glance before reversing the ball. Upon reversal we were not setting any cross screens to get him posted on the oppo block… On one possession we actually were so messed up that we had 3 guys run into each other on the right block and 2 of them fell down onto each other. No composure… No clear sense of purpose… Then we finally get Cody into a weak side pick and roll (something we should have been doing much more considering their personell and our inability to hit him in good post position), but what does Yogi do? Tries to thread the needle on a bounce pass between 2 guards (4guards?) instead of just leading him to the rim with a nice high pass… Of course it gets picked off and there is a 5 point swing.

Defense – again the problem wasn’t Hulls, no matter how many people try to make that case. Hulls’ defense was fine throughout the night and above average on the last possession. The problem was the team communication last night toward the end. Again, lack of composure… Lack of clear purpose. There should be no question at this point whether we are switching dribble-handoffs or ball-screens between guards or not. There should be no hesitation from veterans that with the clock dwindling and a man iso’d that if a guy spins back in your direction that you meet him on the spin and force him into an awkward decision. There should be no question that if a guard is being posted up by a forward that help needs to come. There will be lots of good teaching points from this film.

Part of my issue with the defense wasn’t the composure or execution however, it was with Crean’s decisions. This is more philosophical I guess, and can be argued or defended by both sides. Not that anyone cares, but this is how I would’ve handled the last few minutes and overtime….

1) full court trapping press. We were fresher, bigger, longer, quicker, and deeper. They were losing players to foul trouble every couple minutes… There should be no way we don’t continue our success into overtime that we had with the press during the comeback. I think Cody should’ve been part of that press. He is fast, he is excellent at moving his feet laterally and hedging off guards from direct drives, and he can protect the rim if pressure is broken… Oh and he had zero fouls. I couldn’t believe it that we had them on their heals, that we were finally the hammer (instead of the nail) for the first time since the first half, and then came out in overtime and took our foot off the gas. I thought that it was a poor decision. (unless of course, like me, Crean was looking for a loss at that point)

2) last possession of overtime… Butler had just used its final timeout. My personal philosophy here is to make a switch that they will have a hard time adjusting to with the clock going down and no chance to talk about it. We hadn’t played zone all night… I show pressure just as we did so they have to burn a few seconds bringing the ball up, also to try to keep the ball out of Clarke’s hands… Then as they get the ball over half court, drop off into a 3-2 zone. This will almost always disrupt the play that the other team has called coming out of timeout, and they will also have to waste time communicating into another set. Even if they are able to adjust quickly the clock is now winding further down and it will be difficult to get into the lane. They also didn’t have the size at that point to hurt us with offensive rebounding.

Like I said a philosophical difference… And armchair qb’ing but that’s what we’re here for right?

Laffy – how many guards in a college basketball do you think can stay in front of another player for 75 feet and 15 seconds? I’ve watched the play several times now to make sure I wasn’t crazy. AT NO POINT does Jordy get “schooled” on that last play.

 
#40 Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:10 PM EDT

Geoff – are you kidding me about Hulls not being schooled? Do you think that Butler player would have been able to pull control the ball that long against Victor, Remy, Will, Yogi or Mo? There is no way that Hulls should have been on the floor for the last possession. He is an ok team defender playing passing lanes in a normal half court set but he’ll be eaten alive by two guards in the B1G.

There is a reason a B1G coach called him the worst defender in the B1G.

 
#41
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:25 PM EDT

Yes… I’m serious. I watched Clarke control the ball against full court, one-on-one pressure from Victor all afternoon.

Please show me all the plays where 1 person guards another person for 15 seconds and 75 feet with ZERO help…

Hulls did that and succeeds at cutting him off just under the FT line, forcing him to pick up his dribble. That is good defense. It is very difficult to cut a player off and then also guard a reverse spin. That is when team defense should kick in. Hulls did his job… His teammate did not. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

Now if you want to simply go on the notion that Hulls isn’t one of your top individual defenders and should be on the bench for that possession I would probably agree with you. A better defensive line-up would have been: Yogi, Dipo, Remy, Sheehey, and Zeller.

That is on Crean, not Hulls. Hulls did his job.

 
#42
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:27 PM EDT

Thanks Geoff and TT.

Part of the reason I didn’t give more “basketball insight” before is that I haven’t been that impressed with the team the entire year and I didn’t want to start the “You’re a moron who doesn’t know anything about basketball” dog piles by saying it. I mean, HH jumped off the deep end when I said Wat was lazy.

I don’t remember all the games, but the only one that sticks out in my mind that impressed me was North Carolina.

All the other ones, off the top of my head, I thought, “So what? We’re beating up on cupcakes at home. Not impressing me.”

I never got the CODY IS SO FREAKING AWESOME posts. To me, he’s a little above average. I think any team taking him high in the NBA is stupid. He can’t handle college kids and he’s going to dominate in the NBA? Hardly.

Unless he’s beating the other big guys down the floor for easy lay-ups/dunks, there’s nothing about his game that stands out to me.

We heard all summer how he can “shoot from outside.” I think I saw that once…..and it was yesterday.

His rebounding sucks. So does his free throws.

If all he cares about is the NBA, don’t let the door hit his butt.

And who do we blame for him not dominating after those 3 guys fouled out? Him for not demanding the ball? The other players for not getting it to him? Or Crean for not reaming the players for not doing it?

All three.

I think people are blind for saying Crean did not get out-coached.

I have a Kentucky friend who, before yesterday, kept telling me he thought we were going to win it all. I said we were vastly over-rated and doubt we make it to the Final Four.

I thought we were awful yesterday.

The coaching AND the players.

And as far as Jordy getting schooled, we’ll have to agree to disagree. The guy was a freaking walk-on…..not Kobe. And he went the entire length of the floor on Jordy. Crean should have had Remy on him instead of subbing him for Zeller.

We have the pre-season All-American on the bench for the last 20 seconds? Really?

No Hanner or Jurkin to protect the basket? Really?

All we’ve heard since the end of last season is “how deep our bench is” yet we played 7 guys.

At least Crean admitted we didn’t press enough. With our bench, we should be running teams into the ground….especially after they have 3 guys foul out.

 
#43 Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:43 PM EDT

For the rest of the season, I see Watford’s minutes going down with Hanner and Jeremy getting his playing time.

Hopefully, yesterday’s lesson to the team is stop show boating for the crowd and play hard nose basketball like Butler.

Also, anyone who doesn’t think Victor is gone to the NBA after this year is kidding himself. I love that kid but he was playing at another speed than everyone else on the court and is ready to go.

 
#44
Chet
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:44 PM EDT

Laffy, I don’t disagree. The rebounding was brutal. My point was that HAD we hit free throws we probably wouldn’t be having the same discussion. Good points on your part, BTW.

Geoff, I had the same though about switching to the zone on the last possession. Their guards had been effectively penetrating. Let them reset their offense on the fly in 6 seconds with no timeouts. They were converting threes on ball reversal because of missed backcourt switches. That wasn’t going to happen in just a few seconds when they’d already called a different play.

Everybody learns from this, even CTC. John Wooden wasn’t the same coach at 60 that he was at 40. Dean Smith, either. We want our players to learn from year to year but people act like a coach is a finished product when he takes the helm at a premier school. I sure hope not. I want the guy to get a little smarter every game. Same goes for CKW.

Everybody learns from this.

Let’s hope, when they are hoisting a trophy in March, that they can look back and say ‘the Butler game taught us a so much’.

Nobody is going undefeated. Why, I can’t even remember the last time that happened ;)

 
#45
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:51 PM EDT

It’s clear. Team was not hungry. Coach said it, personally demonstrated it. But coach really is not competent, it was obvious from day one. Now he’s going to run this beautiful into the ground. Cream has best team in the country and Brad Stevens beat him with walk-ons.

 
#46
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:55 PM EDT

oops … beautiful [team] into the ground

When he had walk-ons and the team underperformed constantly we were told: “wait until he gets quality players; he has a system” Now he has the best team in the country and Stevens beats him with walk-ons. Some system Crean has!

Oh, by the way, I think I saw this somewhere before.

 
#47
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:58 PM EDT
 
#48
Chet
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:58 PM EDT

Aruss, you may be right. Vic is still a jump shot away, IMHO.

The whole CWat thing has been beaten to death but I’ll just concur that we have other players that fill the same role. I just want the players who are playing the best on the floor.

 
#49
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:03 PM EDT

With Crean “coaching” Indiana the players on the other team will always have an unfair advantage.

 
#50
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:05 PM EDT

Well, I’m glad we didn’t win because of free throws. I think we NEEDED to get punched in the mouth and lose like that. As I said before, if we do win it all, this game will be why. And thank you.

And Geoff is right about Cody not being a MAN. I’ve thought that the entire season….and not just about him. The only MEN I see are Victor and Remy which is why….again….I think losing Patterson was brutal.

To me, Hollowell is just another Watford. Great talent but no FIRE.

Patterson WANTED to rip your throat out and eat it in front of you.

I’m also a little tired of the “no one is going undefeated” excuse I’ve seen a million times since yesterday. I can handle losing. It happens.

What I can’t handle is mailing it in.

And stupid coaching.

It doesn’t take a HOF coach to think, “Hmmmmmmmm, their best 3 big guys are out and I’ve got the best center in the country. Maybe I should go to him every time.”

I haven’t given up on the team but I don’t have a lot of faith right now. Crean said the rebounding practices will be especially brutal.

I hope so.

And Dustin……….great job with the questioning.

 
#51
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:07 PM EDT

The possession started at 19.3 seconds…

Jordy’s job in the backcourt was only to slow him up. It wasn’t to try to pressure him, especially considering Butler was in the double bonus. He isn’t schooled here. This process takes 9 seconds.

Barlow then decides to make a left-handed drive. Not sure whether this is drawn up or not, but Jordy has essentially sat on his right hand and made him go to his weak hand. Just under the FT line Jordy cuts him off. That means he stayed between his man and the rim. Barlow’s momentum is almost completely taken away, but he does spin and take one more dribble in that process. Sheehey is absolutely PINNED to his man a couple of feet away on the spin and makes no effort to help. Barlow puts up… Not a jump shot, not a lay-up, not a traditional floater, but a one-handed push shot coming out of a spin. This process takes about 5 seconds.

I’m just not sure outside of Dipo that anyone could have forced a better scenario (and Dipo was stuck to Clarke like glue off the ball). Hulls stayed in front. He didn’t foul (which was not an option). He forced his man to reverse spin (a coach’s dream because he usually can’t see help coming). The player was forced to take a non-traditional shot.

As far as individual defense goes all those things are good. Unfortunately when he spun he was met with no opposition, no help… A clear look at the basket. He wasn’t forced to make a quick decision or a spinning pass, or shoot over a taller player. None of those things are Jordy’s fault.

 
#52
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:07 PM EDT

What I can’t handle is mailing it in.

And stupid coaching.

It doesn’t take a HOF coach to think, “Hmmmmmmmm, their best 3 big guys are out and I’ve got the best center in the country. Maybe I should go to him every time.”

Wow, that was brutal.

 
#53
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:34 PM EDT

Maybe I’m a little hard on Jordy because he also didn’t take any 3′s (at least he hadn’t when it was pretty late in the game….maybe he did at the end).

The guy has been told his entire career to shoot more and didn’t take ANY 3′s in a game we NEEDED them.

And he’s a freaking senior.

I think the # 1 thing went to ALL of their heads.

No more show-boating.

No more blowing sunshine up their butts.

Play the damn game.

 
#54
Chet Happens
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:37 PM EDT

No more show-boating.

No more blowing sunshine up their butts.

Play the damn game.

Geez, are you a Knight worshiper?!

Get outta here Laffie…

 
#55
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 1:54 PM EDT

Aruss – I think Dipo is one of the mst NBA-ready players in the country. He does all the things that are hard to teach, and he does them GREAT.

Again, with the rules in the NBA putting a premium on perimeter defenders he can be extremely valuable.

He is also a very good FT shooter, so his shot isn’t broken. He can guard, rebound on both ends, get out in transition, and attack in the half court. When he’s fouled he will make his FT’s. He won’t get pushed around.

He is the most impactful player on our team and it isn’t even close. I think he could start for a few NBA teams right now.

His numbers since Verdell got hurt last year are:

12.7 pts, 5.3 reb, 2.5 a, 2.5 st/bl (while only committing 2.6 fouls) 76% FT, and 54% FG….

He’ll guard the other teams’ best player, he won’t take bad shots, his energy is infectious to both fans and teammates.

 
#56
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:00 PM EDT

It’s easy to put a microscope on the final play…There were tons of ugly plays(offensively and defensively).

History should be the lesson for never allowing a Butler team to hang around.

I believe a huge momentum shift late in the game occurred when Remy ran down a long rebound to the corner(off a missed shot), and after saving the ball from going out of bounds kicked it Yogi…Yogi just fumbled a very easy catch and the possession goes back to Butler.

The lynching going on here is crazy. We lost to a very good Butler team. That Clarke kid is unbelievable…What an amazing story…3700 points in high school.

If you love the game of basketball, you would appreciate the fact that five guys with no fear can beat just about any team on any given night. Butler has been proving it long before going up against our very strong team…They’re a couple plays shy of having two NCAA championship banners in the last four years.

Instead of dragging Hoosiers under a bus, maybe we should recognize we lost to a team that proved just how much those in the business of ranking teams know about the heart of champions.

And let’s not forget that Hulls played 41 minutes. He didn’t expect the kid to have ball skills to spin back on him..If it was Jonny Marlin making the same game-winning prayer next year, we’d all be calling Crean a genius for having him on the bench as a redshirt this year when we could have had the outside shooting threat of Matt Roth instead.

Watching Butler should give us plenty of reason to say no to the ‘Jersey Pipeline.’ A nobody walk-on from just across our border..a kid from the backwoods of Oklahoma and the rest of the bunch some scrappy talented ballers from Indiana with ice in their veins. It’s what it’s all about…It’s what “Because it’s Indiana” should be all about.

 
#57
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:05 PM EDT

If someone would care to go back and watch the tape… Just saw a great example of what I was talking about….

With 4:40 to go in the first half Roosevelt Jones catches the ball on the right wing being guarded by Dipo. Jones drives right and Dipo cuts him off. Jones goes behind his back to the left, but Jordy steps up and helps. Jones reverse spins back to his right hand and goes up for a lay-up, but he is met by Zeller who pins his shot on the backboard.

So yes, Dipo can get beat off the dribble, but when the proper rotation happens and help comes, or bigs are there to disrupt the shot, you get a different outcome.

Someone, or multiple players should have been there to help Hulls on the last play, just like Hulls and Zeller stepped up on that play.

(unfortunately Zeller fumbled the ball and it ended up with an uncontested loose ball bucket on the weak side, but that isn’t the point)

 
#58 Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:07 PM EDT

Indiana ballers??? Jones (the guy who almost had a triple double) is from Illinois and Marshall the guy who brutalized us in the paint is from Florida. I’m sick of the “Indiana Kid” myth. Give me a team full of VO’s over a team full of Trey Lyle’s any day of the week!

 
#59
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:12 PM EDT

I knew that Jersey Pipeline would make another appearance…

Funny how the only mid-major who ever has a chance to win NC’s is coached by Stevens…. There’s only one of him though. Crean doesn’t win with those players, no one else really wins with those types of players, only Stevens. So until Stevens is coaching your favorite team you’ll either need more talent or you need to switch your allegiance to Butler.

 
#60
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:14 PM EDT

Can’t we just admit the Barlow kid made a nice play?

Can’t we suck up one loss and let someone else be a hero for a day?

It’s basketball. We got a taste of March Madness in December. Do we really deserve to win the game against VCU last year…The ball bounds perfectly to a wide-open Sheehey. There’s no help defense in the world that can prevent that ball from destiny’s carom.

Let an opponent be a hero for a day…Let the “Geoff” of Butler have his moment. We’ll get ‘em next time.

 
#61
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:18 PM EDT

You missed me didn’t you, Geoff?

Nutcracker burlesque? Hate to think of what the tin soldiers came out as…

 
#62
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:19 PM EDT

HH is showing his bigotry once again.

Victor isn’t from the Midwest and he’s the HEART of this team.

And I’m tired of the “dragging under the bus” nonsense. See, THAT is why I don’t “talk basketball” more.

That is why the team is soft. You’ve got “fans” like HH blowing sunshine up their butt 24/7 instead of offering honest feedback.

And I’m not like FC13/CH who says Crean should be fired and knows nothing about basketball.

He got punk’d yesterday.

Happens to EVERY coach…….even Knight.

But this team is not living up to it’s potential.

The more I think about it, the more I’m glad we got our butts kicked yesterday.

Bring them back to earth.

And we seem to do better as the “under dog” anyway when people tell them they aren’t good enough and they play with a chip on their shoulder.

 
#63
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:25 PM EDT

A few very random thoughts…

I think our ranking was too high…

Then again, I don’t care about rankings. Cody and Watford have yet to catch their mid-season stride.

Getting Elston back will also be a huge plus.

We’re a Final Four team(with a few more good bounces with the kind hand of destiny).

Respect the game. Stop the stupid gestures when you make a highlight reel play. Give the guy that made the assist the ‘high five’ instead of asking for more camera on yourself.

 
#64
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:25 PM EDT

Stop with the “it’s only one loss” nonsense.

We’ve played like crap more than once and we ALWAYS hear, “Hey, it was just one bad game.”

It’s way more than just “one” bad game.

See, THAT is why we’re critical instead of smooching their butts even when they win if they play like crap….because it’s going to come back and bite us.

Maybe if the players were told of their downfalls after those bad wins, they wouldn’t have become so cocky.

And if I see the “3 to the temple” any more, I’m gonna scream/puke.

Sheehey sucked yesterday…..so stop acting like you’re Jordan winning his 10th title every time you make a 3 pointer.

 
#65
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:29 PM EDT

“And if I see the “3 to the temple” any more, I’m gonna scream/puke.”

I agree with that statement, Laffy. I repeat…I agree with that statement.

Have fun without the showboating. It was pretty easy to tell those Butler players were loving the moment without showboating and taunting. You can love the game without being Fabio.

 
#66
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:39 PM EDT

Hugs and kisses… I love it.

Now, Laffy… Resist the urge. If you’re going to go with the Harvard is a bigot line… Type it. Read it. Get it off your chest. Then delete it and hit “submit comment”.

 
#67
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:54 PM EDT

Harvard – I’ll tell you this… There were characters of all shapes and sizes in that show. It made you appreciate the few lookers that much more. Lots of lingerie and humor. I would go see it again, but they sell out the entire run in like 5 minutes.

 
#68
Three to the Temple
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 2:55 PM EDT

So now that we all agreed that this loss was good let’s all thank Crean for making it happen. Now #244 is coming to town followed by #240. (Heavyweights, man, heavyweights!) Then we top it off with #271, which is just icing on the cupcake before we travel to #53, Iowa. So we’ll be 12-1 going into Iowa City. And perfect time for a mid-season coaching award, don’t you guys think?

Thank you Coach Crean. That felt good. We all agree. Well done!

 
#69
Bombay Sapphire
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:03 PM EDT

The most important season is almost here, B1G. Nonconference was a joke and other than 1 game we escaped ok, but the real season starts 3 games from now. The rankings aren’t anything to be worried about.

Geoff I agree that Ola is the man. But don’t forget he missed a wide open lay in that would’ve pushed lead to 6 in OT, then Clarke hits huge 3, followed by another Butler 3. If Vic had hit the point blank layup to push the lead to 6 initially this would’ve been different outcome.

 
#70
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:05 PM EDT

A song dedication for Geoff.

 
#71
Bombay Sapphire
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:07 PM EDT

Laffy- he’s Will Sheehey, playing D1 ball for a top team in the country. compared to you and about everyone else- he is Jordan. You keep typing for 4-5 readers, while he keeps playing for 1 million fans.

 
#72
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:13 PM EDT

Geoff, you need to look up the definition of the word. It’s not “name-calling” when it’s true. He paints an entire area as “bad” and another entire area as “good.”

That’s being a bigot.

 
#73
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:19 PM EDT

I’m not discussing truth… I’m discussing you two staying civil, not escalating the issue, and you both being allowed to continue on this blog.

 
#74
Bombay Sapphire
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:19 PM EDT

For everyone complaining about IU’s minor celebrations after made shots or big dunks….the next time you watch a game and teams who don’t do that start the game with a 15 point head start let me know. You can tell that the folks blaming this loss on how IU acts don’t know much about the logistics involved in the ebb and flow of a basketball game. Just because you don’t enjoy watching something doesn’t mean that’s the reason they lost.

 
#75
Three to the Temple
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:20 PM EDT

^ No I think he has an “in-between” area too… Hence: trigot.

 
#76
Lord of the Tin Soldier
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:22 PM EDT

Just say “YES!

 
#77
Laffy
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:28 PM EDT

Well then, just kick me off because I am not going to give him a free pass for being a complete bigot and ripping a bunch of kids non-stop that don’t deserve it.

 
#78
psych
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:38 PM EDT

I drove up from Kentucky to attend the game with my family, who drove down from Minnesota. Definitely a tough loss to swallow, but Butler executed their gameplan perfectly, and IU did not respond until it was too late. Brad Stevens is one helluva coach. Not saying Crean isn’t, but if Crean ever leaves (highly doubtful, I would take Stevens at IU in a heartbeat. Losing to Butler is hardly anything to kill ourselves over. If IU is really as legitimate as most of us think they are, they’ll be angry at losing this game and use that anger to start playing better basketball. I think this is a great time of the year to lose to remind our guys they are not invincible, but to also not losing a game in the Big Ten standings too.

 
#79
psych
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:38 PM EDT

Lose* not losing.

 
#80
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:51 PM EDT

Bombay – I’m honestly not trying to be combative with you, just want to correct the record. Dipo never missed a lay-up at the time you’re talking about.

80-80 with 3 minutes left in OT, Zeller fouled and makes 2 FT
82-80 Butler misses, IU defenfensive rebound
82-80 secondary transition bucket from Zeller off great feed from Yogi
84-80 Butler misses 3, but gets long offensive rebound and Clarke hits long 3 in scramble
84-83 Yogi tries to thread bounce pass on pick-and-roll with Zeller – turnover
84-83 Sheehey and Dipo miscommunicate and double Clarke leaving Stigall a wide open 3
84-86 Hulls misses a bad shot, ball goes oob to IU, TO, Zeller scores lay-up on drive to hoop
86-86 the much debated Barlow possession
88-86 Hulls misses half court shot

Not sure what you’re thinking of… Must have been another time. Dipo did not attempt a single shot in OT. He only touched it 3 times – an oreb that led to a Hulls jumper and a 2 point lead, a ball reversal in the half court, and the time he caught it on the wing and slipped on the wet spot.

 
#81
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:55 PM EDT

I smell a Lord of the Wet Spot post coming..

 
#82
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 3:58 PM EDT

Score another one for the analytical nerds… John Hollinger hired as VP of Basketball Ops of the first place Memphis Grizzlies.

 
#83
Three to the Temple
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 4:00 PM EDT

I think this is a great time of the year to lose

Damn, why does that not work the same for Butler?

 
#84
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 4:35 PM EDT

Funny, you must have missed the 2 looses next to their name…

 
#85
Geoff
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 4:36 PM EDT

Losses… Damnit!

 
#86
Chet
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 5:16 PM EDT

I thought we make it through the whole thread without a couple ‘looses’ thrown in there, dammit. ‘Looses’ is a Kaintuck word.

Come on, Laffy. That one’s on you. A score of great posts and then there you go. Please take Geoff’s advice.

Harvard, you’re absolutely right. Why focus on the last play when there were so many bad ones? I was pretty sure Yogi’s fumble you mentioned was gonna do us in. He followed up with the three but it wouldn’t have been necessary if he hadn’t dropped the ball of his leg. Ups on the lack of retaliation, BTW.

Geoff would know a lot more about the stats but, to the eyeball test, I thought this was, far and away, Yogi’s worst game. A lot of his errors might not even show up on the stat sheet. The whole team looked to be in a fog.

psych, couldn’t agree more. Consider this, what could IU potentially gain/learn from winning this, an otherwise meaningless, game vs. what could IU gain/learn from losing this game? If we go on to win the the Big Ten and/or the Big Dance everyone will look back to this loss. If we hit a couple more free throws and limp to a victory THAT’S what could come back to haunt us.

You learn a lot more from failures than successes. This team has a TON of tools but they also have SO much to learn.

It sucked. It truly did. I also think it was exactly what our Hoosiers needed.

 
#87
Chet
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 5:22 PM EDT

Living in NC I’ve become a Panthers fan. I like Cam Newton. A lot. I think he can be a great one.

That ‘three to the temple’ thing makes me think of Cam doing his Superman peeling off his shirt thing.

Dude, when you were picked to make the playoffs and you’re 4-9 just keep your head down and keep working. Don’t do a touchdown celebration when you’re on the wrong end of a hopeless game.

It makes you look like a fool.

 
#88
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 5:32 PM EDT

Laffy, I’m really enjoying your comments…with the exception of ‘moron’, ‘stupid’ (both of which you can replace with a shoirt phrase that describes what you are talking about- i.e. did Crean not realize he had his best defender (Remy) next to him and that Remy’s length alone would have bothered Barlow- pretty obvious). But really good comments.

I also agree on your comment bout DD. That was an excellent question, CRean’s reaction to it showing some uncalled for fastidiousness and a degree of wanting to ‘control the message’ which should be the last thing we should encourage at Indiana.

Please, don’t revive the HH stuff (and single-word adjectives like ‘moron’, etc. Let the HH stuff disappear as you have (it should even help HH and all the other ‘split personalities’. Not for any reason. We- a lot of us- want this Laffy. We not only enjoy your analysis, we respect it, respect you for it and don’t want distractions to rob us of it. Really enjoyable and (sports) profound.

 
#89
Podunker
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 5:53 PM EDT

Wow, I’m more surprised by the number of chicken-littles that posted on this site than I am IU losing to Butler. Reading some of these comments, you’d think IU’s season is over and Crean should resign after being humiliated. Let’s review the facts:

IU’s star is a sophomore. The point guard is a freshman. We’ve had three key players out due to injury or suspension. We got beat in over-time on a neutral site to a team that is well coached and was super-motivated to beat their in-state rival. News flash: The sky is NOT falling.

Did anyone think IU was going to go undefeated this season? I didn’t. Do you think this is going to be IU’s last loss of the season? It won’t be.

This team embarrassed themselves. They made a ton of mistakes, shot badly, rebounded like wimps, and gave up way too many second-chance points. They also relaxed on numerous occasions when they were up by four or five or whatever. They failed to bring the killer instinct to Indy yesterday. If this loss does not piss these guys off, then they’re not the team everyone thought they were. If they don’t watch this tape and get the urge to barf, then they’re in trouble.

You learn more from your losses than you do your victories. They will learn from this and I’m confident they will fix a bunch of stuff.

One series of comments I agree with is that Cody needs to be more dynamic and play like a man. Opposing coaches have studied him and they’ve figured out how to minimize his impact on offense. If the refs don’t call the hacks, then IU is at a disadvantage, but he needs to go to the hole with much more power and violence. He needs to play much more physical and demand the ball more often. He also needs to work on that free-throw shot. As much as he gets hacked, he can’t afford to be a mediocre free throw shooter. You’re either the team leader or you’re not. Cody needs to decide.

 
#90
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 6:05 PM EDT

Laffy. cut away the first half of #62 (I hadn’t seen it when I wrote my #88) and the rest is pretty much my conclusion. Jud Headcoat at Michigan State at times out coached Knight- even led Knight to take a look and use some of his zone.

The kid at Butler is one heck of a coach. His teams are plain enjoyable to watch because they are a lot more like the rest of us…minus the hype of talent and the rating, minus media and ESPN pouring it over them…they work hard, refine their talent and focus on contributing to the team and love the idea of doing so.

At times we’ve done that- particularly last year…this year I haven’t seen that ingredient either, not even vs North Carolina…That one was easy to explain, they were much less than we were (at that stage). The difference was about right in both talent and team play. Georgetown darn near exposed us and, in many ways, they were a lot like Butler.

The greatest challenge Crean will face this year is how he is able to translate and develop a team ethic to talented players who sometimes give in to their own nature. I see this in Sheehey more than the others but to an extent

 
#91
Podunker
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 6:51 PM EDT

“and develop a team ethic to talented players who sometimes give in to their own nature. I see this in Sheehey more than the others but to an extent.”

Well said, Tsao. And I agree with your comment about Sheehey. Love his hustle, love his passion, love his work ethic, but there has been something about him that has bothered me and I think you just described it when you said “give in to their own nature.” I think that’s what bothers me about the symbolism of his three-fingers-to-the-temple gesture. I did not see any of Butler’s players making any similar gestures yesterday.

 
#92
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 7:23 PM EDT

Podunker…that’s right and I was watching specifically for what their players would do to celebrate (actually, I was looking to see if they would flood the floor). Butler’s players celebrated by hugging each other and walking off arms around one another in small groups of two and three. That’s how it’s done.

Mine may be old values about teams and respecting the sport that were valid in the 50s and 60s. Theey are still valid…more important,… they are still right.

 
#93
Horse lips Chet
Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 8:05 PM EDT

This was http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8OiKg_Oo_8M me after the game.

 
#94
Hoosier Clarion
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:20 AM EDT

Just got back from a whirlwind early Christmas weekend celebration with the in-laws. Took awhile to read and digest all posts. Rebounding, what the hell happened? I could not believe what I wasn’t seeing. Cody to prevent a loss should have done more but still scored 2 more points than he is averaging. Hull’s D on Butlers last offensive play was solid as Geoff stated. Absolutely would have had CZ in for that possession and 3-2 zone would have been the D of choice. Goff’s thought about initial full court pressure is a good option for disruption. CW is the 1 man I knew Butler could not match up with. But I forgot about Houdini Watford would be playing this game. Hulls anger after the game was 2 fold, his man scored the go ahead and he had a less than desirable last second shot at the end. Actually if he had reacted any other way I would be questioning his lack of anger.

 
#95
Podunker
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 5:45 AM EDT

One does not demonstrate one’s disappointment by angrily shoving one’s teammate. It’s a big red flag and not the behavior displayed by a team leader. Let’s put it this way; I was really, really surprised when I saw Hulls do that. It seemed out of character.

 
#96
Husky Tom
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 9:39 AM EDT

Not a big red flag and you’re as wrong as always Podunke. Creek was in his way yelling something at the officials table. Hulls shoved him as if to say “No point in yelling, and let’s get the hell out of here.” Creek had absolutely nothing to do with Hulls, he simply got in his way. You and TTG both don’t know what you’re talking about but as always you’re pretty obstinate about it.

 
#97
Billy Ocean
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:38 AM EDT

^Head case, serious head case. And name stealer.

 
#98 Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:42 AM EDT

^ Ditto.        

 
#99
Laffy
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:38 PM EDT

Podunker–

You act like this was a one-time thing. Even when we won by 25 points several games, we looked bad. It was because we were playing cream puffs we won by big margins. And when people expressed concern, they were told, “You know nothing about basketball. We just won by 25. What do you expect….win by 50?”

How many times are you guys going to say, “Relax, it was one bad game”?

And I don’t buy the excuse, “They were super-motivated and it was a neutral site” as the crowd was mostly IU fans. At least you didn’t say anything ridiculous like “road game atmosphere like Crean did.

That may have been the most disappointing thing about all of that. No, Coach, that was not a “road” atmosphere. Your team is soft because you play a cream puff schedule and you let the players hot dog too much.

And, for the 4,864th time: I can handle losses. If the team busts their butt and loses by 50, I will defend them more than anyone. But I will NOT defend them when they mail it in.

Cody was a joke. So was Will. So was Jordy. And Watford is at the point of making me sick. We have a championship caliber team, he’s fighting for a high draft spot, and he’s HORRIBLE.

And that was one of the worst coaching jobs by Crean I’ve ever seen.

Love your comment about barfing. Couldn’t agree more and that is probably the best way I’ve seen it described. If those guys don’t puke after watching that, the season is over.

Post # 93 is not me.

Dustin, I do not think Facebook is the answer. Just get a damn board where people can’t sign in with ANY name they want. I don’t know why that is so hard because this is the ONLY board I’ve seen that happen.

Ever.

Sure is odd you keep threatening to ban me but let that guy, FC13, keep stealing names.

As far as HH, I kinda see what you guys are saying. But the guy does nothing but trash other people’s character and then screams like a toddler when called out for it.

 
#100
Podunker
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 9:21 PM EDT

Laffy, you’re sounding like a guy who’s emotions are getting the better of his rational thought. We lost one game in over time. Try to keep it in perspective.

 
#101
Laffy
Monday, December 17, 2012 - 9:38 PM EDT

We’ve looked like crap more than “one game.”

That’s about the 5th time I’ve heard “one bad game” already.

Even Knight used to get mad after wins if we looked like crap so forgive me for not jumping up and down with joy because we’ve only lost one against Cream Puff Central.

Again…….I have not given up on the team and want Crean fired and actually think this might have been the best thing to happen to us if we learn from it.

 
#102
historical document
Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 1:28 AM EDT

Family picture of Tom Crean dunking in a high-school basketball game in Mount Pleasant, MI.

 


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