Live Discussion: Indiana vs. Butler

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  • Geoff says:

    I’m not just saying this for effect… I would be more upset if IU had won that game. What a gross mental effort by most of the players and the coaching staff.

    Happy for Yogi. That shot should help his confidence.

    Composure in the second half of 3rd graders.

    Other than Dipo, no one played “well”.

    A win would have covered up some warts. Now they’ll have to face all the facts.

  • Aruss says:

    Can anyone tell me why Hulls is on the floor our last defensive possession of the game and not Zeller?

  • Ron says:

    Toss up between the free throws and not stopping the drives to the basket. Butler looks good. Who knows but I don’t think the cupcake schedule helped. Cody taking a beating in there, not knocking him but he hit the floor four times at least. Lot of shots taken that normally would have gone. Something like 10 minutes with on field goal. Bet practice is going to focus on some different things. In the long run this may be a good loss for the Hoosiers and if we have to have a loss, Butler is good. Keep it in state I guess.

  • Laffy says:


    For countless reasons.

    And I agree with Geoff.

  • Double Down says:

    Jordan Hulls continues to be one of the worst on-ball defenders in the NCAA. A walk-on blew past him for the winning shot.

    This team has to get tougher on D. No blocking out, too much miscommunication or no communication on help-D (except for the last 2 min of regulation) and Butler just got too many easy looks off of 2nd chances.

    If I am a Big Ten coach, I’m studying this game film and preparing exactly as Butler played us today.

    Sad that we couldn’t beat a team with 3 out of 5 of its starting lineup fouled out of the game.

  • coachv says:

    i agree with aruss. allegedly the best center in the country not in the game for butler’s last possesion? he could have protected the basket on the last butler basket. what, crean put all guards out there? stupid.

    also, no effort to get the ball to zeller in the last minutes with all of butler’s bigs fouled out. pathetic coaching. also on zeller for not posting up. he needs some post moves and a higher release point inside.

  • Aruss says:

    Don’t give the worst title on this team to Hulls so easily because whoever Watford guarded each possession usually scored. If he played with half the energy of Oladipo and half the basketball IQ of Hulls, he’d be unstoppable. Instead he’s just a maddening enigma.

  • Podunker says:

    OUCH! That was painful. They had a week to prepare and all that produced was bad shooting, lack of hustle for rebounds, and terrible defense in the paint. IU got out-hustled and outplayed.

    IU is definitely not the same team when playing outside Assembly Hall. And how do they lose after three of Butler’s top players foul out of the game? Cody should have taken the last ten shots of the game after Butler’s third player fouled out.

    Did anyone else see Hulls shove his teammate after the game was over? Not good.

  • phenomenal1 says:

    The lack of effort on the glass was maddening, I don’t know how many times I saw someone just watch as Butler hustled for every ball. Which is one reason I really respect butler, they play hard and don’t lay down for anybody. But, how do we get outrebounded with the length and athleticism we have? Did anybody see a graphic showing their second chance points compared to ours? I’m sure it is ridiculous.

  • Laffy says:

    Looks like I was right afterall about Jordy and Yogi not being able to be on the court at the same time for D.

    And right about Watford being lazy.

    And right how I think we’ll be better next year because of the rebounding.

    Maybe now they’ll knock of their “3 fingers to the temple” crap and just play ball.

    Zeller isn’t leaving early if he keeps playing like that.

  • Laffy says:

    Not only is that kid a walk-on, he’s only scored 12 points the whole season.

    How many 3’s did Jordy even try?

  • Bombay Sapphire says:

    Who do you think knows Zeller’s game better than anyone? The coaching staff. All the pundits and outsiders looking in have bought into all the media write ups that Zeller is the best player in the country. That just isn’t true. Is he the best 7 footer? Yes. Does he help his team immensely? Yes. But is he going to take over a game, just lob it to him and let him ‘go to work’? No, he doesn’t have that kind of game…at all. People complaining about how he was being used? Screw that…he played 37 minutes and had 5 rebounds…5. Butler had 4 kids with 5 or more rebounds. I don’t think he’s overrated but for fans who think it should just be the Cody Zeller show, they clearly don’t see the deficiencies in his low post game. As an IU fan I’m ok with this loss, didn’t like the cockiness of Oladipo lately. Plus its back to what really matters: not being ‘ranked #1’….winning the B1G

  • Aruss says:

    I use to think Laffy was an internet troll but after watching this game he’s been spot on. I won’t doubt him again.

  • Bombay Sapphire says:

    Laffy you weren’t right about anything. The team losing doesn’t mean you are right. If they had won would you have been ‘wrong’ about all those things? Sorry but Watford is lazy win or lose, thats why he was still available back during the Crean crisis year, big time schools didn’t like his motor.

  • Chet says:

    Bad play in lots of areas. Too bad we won’t go undefeated. Meaningless non-conference loss.

    If we were gonna lose a game this is as good as any. It exposed our flaws and really let the guys know what they need to improve on to win important games.

    Nice three by Yogi but it was one of the few bright spots in his game today. I hate to be down on him but he had a pretty bad game. He wasn’t alone. Despite that one trey, Butler really played good perimeter defense. Obviously, Coach Stevens decided he was going to lose because of the three. They also did a good job down low. Every funny bounce seem to have Butler’s name on it.

    Interesting stat about how the number one team usually gives up its first loss to an unranked team.

    I kinda wrote this one off at the 7 minute mark. IU just didn’t look like the team that was gonna win.

    That game is, and will continue to be, more important to Butler than to IU.

  • Geoff says:

    Double Down – as frustrating as that game was, and regardless of what I said in my first post… I will continue to defend Hulls’ defense.

    Your statement that a walk-on “blew past him for the winning shot” is completely inaccurate.

    I’m not sure if you’re trolling for a response, but if you’re trying to make an honest criticism feel free to watch the play again… Jordy cut him off going left and forces him to come to a complete stop. Barlow picks up his dribble 13 feet from the basket, inside the FT dotted circle. He then reverse spins back to the right and no one helps. A 10 foot, off-balance, one-handed push shot from a walk-on is exactly what I’d want if I were Jordy. Especially after guarding him for 75 feet and 15 seconds by myself.

    The 2 errors were:

    1) like Coachv said, Cody was not in the game to protect the rim
    2) no one helped when Jordy forced Barlow to spin back

    There is a lot more to say about Cody’s play and the decision-making from the start of the second half on, but I’ll have to get back to that later…

    Wifey got us tix to some Xmas burlesque show in Portland.

    Y’all have fun tonight.

  • coachv says:


    it was creek that hulls shoved after the game

  • Laffy says:


    You guys keep crying “one bad game” when it’s been way more than one.

    Our players act like because they can dunk and rain 3’s on a bunch of nobodies, they’re “THE MAN” and start flashing their private “gang signals” thinking they’re tough.

    They got punched in the mouth today and never responded.

    Cody had zero fouls…which means he wasn’t aggressive….and only 5 rebounds when 5 guys on their team did the same…and they weren’t on all the covers before the season.

    And he only shot it 9 times.

    I’ll be GLAD when Watford is gone because the guys coming in are HUNGRY.

    Jordy, LOVE the kid, but he gets abused on defense. That walk-on took it coast to coast and schooled him. A SENIOR.

    Oh, and there’s something else I was right about too: Losing Patterson killed us a LOT more than if Hollowell had left.

    He plays defense like someone slapped his mom.

  • Laffy says:

    Comments from Crean:

    Said environment was good for IU because Purdue, Butler, ND fans made it like a road environement.

    “The bottom line for us, we didn’t rebound the ball well enough today. … Our communication was sporadic.”

    (On Cody Zeller) “I know he’s got to get more than five rebounds.” Said he was happy with how hard Zeller played, getting to the line, battle the contact and those things.

    “Our spirit wavered a little bit with the score.”

    “I’m excited about the rebounding drills we’re going to do. I’m not sure there will be many people sharing that joy with me, but I know I’ll be excited about it because right now, that’s an area we have to shore up for ourselves.”

    “This came down to communication, some defensive mistakes and we didn’t rebound for 45 minutes like we need to … We weren’t good enough on the backboard today.”

    Said IU went small at the end without Zeller on the floor to defend the ball screen they’d been running and not risk getting into a switch that would be bad for IU.”

    (On Butler’s two late 3s): “We went under screens, miscommunicated … They made the plays, but we made the mistakes defensively.”

    (On the full-court pressure late in regulation that helped IU rally and force OT): “If I have one regret right now, it’s not going to that earlier.”

    (On Yogi’s tying 3 late in regulation): “That’s Yogi being Yogi.”

    “Our practices will be fierce now.”

    Well, if he wants a “road atmosphere” he should schedule more tough games on the road. And still wasn’t anything close to a real road game and half the people there cheered for us.

    As I said, I think we’ll be better next year because of the rebounding. 3 studs coming in that rebound like crazy.

    Loved the last line from Crean.

    If the team learns from this, and comes out HUNGRY, it will be the best thing that happened to us.

  • Laffy says:

    We got the Kiss of Death from Seth Davis because yesterday he said we’d be the last undefeated team.

  • Larry says:

    Another week off between games cost us. Zeller must start taking more 10-13 foot turnarounds. Too predictable when getting the ball, he’s goin to the basket,

  • Larry says:

    I agree on Zeller having 0 fouls. My philosophy is that a player should be getting more physical as the game progresses, and should end the game with at least 2 fouls.

  • Laffy says:

    I’m guessing they had Finals too so you can’t blame it on losing a week.

    Don’t know Crean can say they had “great energy” when they got abused on the board.

  • TsaoTsuG says:

    Some thoughts. First, Laffy, impressive. More than one of us glad you’re now focused on the core here. Solid comments.

    The bad part, much deeper than I thought it would be.

    Rebounding was horrible, especially under our own defensive backboard. How many o.r.’s did Butler collect? Awful. Yeah, Coach Crean, maybe Yogi was Yogi for that one ‘3’, but Yogi was Yogi for much of the game too. He needs to play within himself. He is a freshman, weeks separated from being in high school.

    The good news…no longer so concerned with the NBA in regards to anyone in particular. The other good news, we are getting near the point (I hope) when we get Derek Elston back. I’d forgotten how much we miss his ‘presence’, especially in games like tonight’s. He’ll be absolutely fundamental to the Big Ten season when most games will be like this one.

    Zeller…two weeks ago Watford got a mouthful. Watford has to understand how important he is and control his tendency to get down on himself. Amd, understand that the more he allows the depression to take him over, the more he’ll play like this. Look Christian, the only thing at stake is…your career, so relax. Zeller…passive…this week’s Watford from the NC game? Uninvolved, distant, disappeared…(except for maybe the last minute or so). But, of course, he won’t get the treatment.

    Thank the round ball gods for Remy. Without him, this is a regulation 10 point game. Remy is the guy you want in the fox hole. Oladipo as well. For the rest, and for what seemed like an unprepared Hoosier team, definitely not a top ten performance.

    Butler?… Is the gentleman who wrote the comment last week protesting the fact that Butler fans seem unwilling to assume their #2 role still in the state?. Butler seemed much more in the tradition of Indiana basketball than we did; at least, for this particular performance. We’ve got to applaud the Bulldogs, their coach and “the Butler Way” basketball. They earned it tonight.

    If nothing else, hit the free throws…nothing but the barn wall for those. At least learn that.
    Perhaps, for us, at least from all the premature commentary celebrating this ‘championship season’, the expectation that the shirt that reads ‘Indiana’ alone does it won’t do it either against Butler or in the B1G.

    Time to go back to school…and reality.

  • Chet says:

    Larry, I tend to agree. Cody has gotten one dimensional around the basket. Guys are starting to sag because they are pretty sure he’s not going to pull up and shoot when he’s perfectly capable of doing it.

    I’m glad the guys weren’t classless jerks like the Kaintuck players when they whined about losing because of “one lucky shot” when we beat them last year after leading the whole game. Their lack of character is following them around.

    Our Hoosiers played poorly and lost a meaningless game in front of everybody. I’m betting this gives them that edge back that they obviously need.

    I was pretty sure we weren’t going undefeated this year.

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