Live Discussion: Indiana at Michigan State


Share the Scoop!

105 comments:

  • Geoff #1


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 7:52 PM EDT

    5 Things for MSU Game…

    1) Zeller must continue the recent trend of diversifying his offense – The turn-around jumper has looked good… Now it’s time to add another consistent wrinkle.  Cody also needs to run Nix to death.  This seems obvious, but for some reason it never happened in the first game.  If Cody just tries to bang away at the brick wall like he did last time I see IU walking away with their heads down.

    2) Hulls needs to pay closer attention to Harris – So far IU has done a good job of not letting the same player get over on them twice (Ross Travis/AJ Hammons). Hulls isn’t great at defending dribble penetration, but he can certainly chase a shooter around and defend on the catch.  I’d take my chances doubling off of other players and make sure Harris isn’t lighting us up again.

    3) allow Payne to fail – I just don’t believe that Payne can go 3-4 from range again… But I’d love to see him try if I were Tom Crean.  Because of his advantage in size, length, and athleticism over Watford I just assume he wander around the perimeter and not harass us inside. 

    4) Watford needs to continue his strong play – he must be sensing that the end is near because I’ve never seen CW play with this much intensity this consistently.  He is matching up against a bigger, more athletic player, but Payne has to guard him too.  I’m hoping to see plenty of transition 3′s and strong drives to the hoop from Christian.  Payne shouldn’t be used to finding perimeter shooters trailing the play, nor is he laterally quick enough to close out  CWat and take away the drive.  Big night from our senior!

    5) Sheehey – he has actually played well in 2 of the losses (13 against both Butler and Illinois) but tonight I think we need an extra motivated Sheehey.  We’re not sure how Dipo is really doing (I think he’s 90%) and MSU has size and athleticism up front with Dawson, Payne, Nix, and Costello. He could also be matched up with guys like Harris and Valentine.  Im having flashbacks of when we switched him onto Burke for spurts to keep him off balance, and I’m not counting on Appling getting into foul trouble again, so that would be a great tactic once more.  We need his energy, defense, rebounding and scoring tonight more than ever tonight.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #2


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 8:05 PM EDT

    Harvard’s 5 Keys..

    Remy, Remy, Remy, Remy…and more Remy.

  • Good Time #3


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 8:32 PM EDT

    Coach Crean needs to get more aggressive with refs.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #4


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:03 PM EDT

    I’m disappointed in the announcers overshadowing so many fine young men to endlessly talk about one player. Do all we care about anymore in the college game is the kid that fits best at the next level..? I’d fire all their asses.

    Let the college game live on its on merits and leave the discussions of the NBA to hotel maids that bring them all “World Peace.”

  • Geoff #5


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:10 PM EDT

    Tsao – please look me in the eyes and tell me that the reffing wasnt greatly in MSU’s favor that half. Cody should have shot at least 6 FT’s, but has 2. Matt Costello has more FT attempts than Cody. They’ve let a lot go on our end underneath. MSU got to the bonus with 5 min to go in the half. IU never got there. Sheehey gets called for 2 ticky-tac fouls in 10 seconds, and MSU gets away with a few off arms on their end…

    Why doesn’t Payne miss against us?

    Watford is surprisingly effective on Nix.

  • Geoff #6


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:13 PM EDT

    Did I just witness IU effectively defend an underneath oob!

  • Geoff #7


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:25 PM EDT

    Worst rule in basketball. Shit happens. If there’s no intent then you can’t curb a practice. Quit over-reffing games. The NCAA sucks balls.

  • Geoff #8


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:30 PM EDT

    Tsao…. Did you just see Yogi get tackled? No call. Turnover and a lay-up for MSU’s first lead…

  • Geoff #9


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:31 PM EDT

    Ok… We’ll take the and 1. Guess the refs were feeling guilty.

  • Geoff #10


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 9:50 PM EDT

    Ok this is getting ridiculous… Payne is 6-7 from 3 against IU in 2 games this year.

    He is 5-14 in 96 other career games.

  • Geoff #11


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:01 PM EDT

    Ok… Tsao… Now what. Flagrant on Watford… Nothing on Nix.

    Give me a break.

  • Geoff #12


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:05 PM EDT

    Hightower is officially a JOKE

  • Good Time #13


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:07 PM EDT

    It’s not bad enough that we have to listen to the BS announcers, but to then bring in the clown Magic Johnson is a bit much.
    Someone needs to tell ESPN about these announcers, what they tell Ringling Bros.
    “bring in the elephants, because we have enough Clowns for the show.”

  • Geoff #14


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:09 PM EDT

    Perfect defense by Zeller on the Hedge. Took OT in the chest and didn’t come close to fouling on the steal attempt. Foul called… Guess who… Hightower.

  • Geoff #15


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:13 PM EDT

    Uh oh, oob under

  • Geoff #16


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:17 PM EDT

    What an embarrassment for MSU clock manager…

    Not sure why Zeller doesn’t take that ball and go with it though.

  • Geoff #17


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:20 PM EDT

    WHAT!!!!!

    Omg… What an embarrassing call by the ref.

    Tsao?

  • Geoff #18


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:23 PM EDT

    All that BS and they still couldn’t beat us.

  • Yesterday's Gone #19


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:31 PM EDT

    The clock-keeper almost beat us.

    The ref’s almost beat us.

    MS played tough, almost beat us.

    We almost beat us.

    Damn Good Win. Thanks Men!

  • HallofFame #20


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:37 PM EDT

    I couldn’t believe it when Cody got hit in the balls and Valentine called it and then reversed the call. The refs tonight were really trying to homer us. We earned this victory.

  • Larry #21


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:39 PM EDT

    I’m not one to complain about the refs, typically I think all do a good job & theres a few bad calls on both sides, but not tonite, IU got screwed a few times

  • Larry #22


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:44 PM EDT

    Simply astonishing, oh, where is Debbie when ya need her?

  • Podunker #23


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:47 PM EDT

    Well, Geoff is right on the mark! The refs did their best to take that game away from IU, but some how, Crean’s team kept their composure and won it anyway.

    That was the worst called game I’ve seen this year. Zeller gets hit in the stones, the refs review the video tape, and yet there is no foul called. Yogi gets tackled on the way to a lay-up, and there is no call. Since I had a small stroke about half way through the second half, I can’t remember more specific examples, but I know there were a great number of them. And who was managing that clock? He was a joke! He gave MSU another five seconds. I’m excited we won, but those refs should be penalized for that game. They were the only thing that kept MSU in the game.

    Did you see the flop by MSU’s big man. He laid there on the floor as if George Foreman had hit him with a straight right, making sure the refs were going to notice that he got bumped in the nose. Unbelievable that they called a flagrant foul on that.

    O.K., we beat Izzo, we beat 15,000 loud fans, we beat MSU’s players and we beat the most incompetent refs to be assembled on a court this year. Now we have to finish the season off at MN and win the two remaining home games.

    Proud to be a Hoosier tonight!

  • iulongago #24


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:49 PM EDT

    Can we just stop with the “Notre Football Web Site” crap? So what if the refs were biased or bad (ask teams that come into Assembly Hall as to how unbiased they think the officiating is). IU is going to run into refs in the NCAA tournament who are going to “let teams play” and we, of course, are going to think that IU is getting screwed. The ‘huge’ takeaway from tonight is that IU played through that,IU took MSU’s “punch in the mouth” with about 3 minutes to go and then won. The guys on the floor and on the bench did a Great job against a really good team and coach in a really tough environment.

  • Podunker #25


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 10:58 PM EDT

    Come on, where are the trolls? Where are all those “Crean is a clown,” “Crean can’t coach,” “Crean is a just a recruiter,” “Crean is a used car sales man,” etc, etc? Cats got your tongues? Can’t find any inane comments tonight? What, no clever critiques? No juvenile posts that nit pick the coach of the number one team in the USA? No slanderous comments about the coach that just lead his team to the first victory at MSU in over 20 years?

    O.K., so you’ve been proven, beyond any doubt, that your ridiculous criticisms of Tom Crean are without merit. So do one of the following: 1) Shut up for the remainder of the season, or 2) admit that you were totally wrong, have no idea what good coaching looks like, and would not know what a good college coach looked like if your life depended on it.

  • Higgi #26


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:01 PM EDT

    Sorry Coach Knight…nothing is better than INDIANA basketball. If IU continues to stay focused and take the fight to whomever they play, then there is a good chance there will be another banner (or two) hanging in Assembly Hall next season. Fantastic game…GO IU!

  • coachv #27


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:03 PM EDT

    that foul call on sheehey was bs. yogi has to finish his lay-ups. reminds me of avery johnson in his early years at golden state. no problem getting to the bsaket but not getting them to go down. i had the same problem myself in my youth. next year yogi will finish those and he’ll be one of the best point guards in the country. his missed free throws almost cost us the game as well.

    before the last inbounds when victor ran out i was telling my wife zeller should break deep for an easy lay-up. no way fat boy can run with cody.

    we can play better.

  • Podunker #28


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:03 PM EDT

    iulongago, we didn’t just take MSU’s best punch in the mouth, we took the refs’ best punch, too! That game really should not have been that close. MSU can’t really stay with IU’s talent or depth. We’re not talking a few questionable calls, we’re talking attempted grand larceny. The refs were horrific!

  • Larry #29


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:03 PM EDT

    Excellent comment Podunker, wow, what an incredible victory that one was. I should be sleeping for work tomorrow but absolutely no way yet. might have to down a 5th of scotch, lol.

  • iuhoosier1992 #30


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:05 PM EDT

    Victor is player of the year in all of college basketball. How many times did he tip the ball to keep it alive so IU could get the rebound? Yogi shuts down Appling again. How can a junior let a freshman do that to him twice in one season? That was an amazing team effort. As someone said earlier, MSU punched us in the mouth with 3 minutes left. The guys took the punch, smiled, and just finished. What a team effort!!!

  • iulongago #31


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:08 PM EDT

    PODUNKER–If I’m a troll for thinking (and saying) that Crean screwed up the end of the Illinois and Butler games while also screwing up the end of the Minnesota game, then I plead guilty to that. I also recognize when people do well (I hope) and the coaching staff at the end of this game (see my comment above) did a Great Job. I don’t know who came up with the breakaway to ‘almost’ seal this game but I’m going to assume that Crean and the staff either called it or approved it. Gutsy move and reat result. Timeouts were called when needed and Crean was right on top of the clock ‘stuff’ at the end of the game. Once again, Great Job by everybody.

  • Podunker #32


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:09 PM EDT

    coachv, to your point, and it is especially good news, IU’s players still have a lot of room for improvement. Not picking on him, but Yogi had a terrible game tonight and IU still won. Free throws were also bad tonight. Yogi misses two in a row. CWat misses two of three, etc. But hey, our guys overcame all the obstacles and still pulled out a victory. Got to love their toughness.

    That game was a huge character builder for Crean’s young men. I have no more concerns about their ability to win on the road. And no one should have any further questions about Crean’s ability to prepare a team or coach a team through adversity.

    Now they just have to stay focused up in that barn in MN and take care of business at home.

  • Geoff #33


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:11 PM EDT

    I don’t think Po was referring to you iulongago.

  • Geoff #34


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:15 PM EDT

    Po – I wouldn’t say Yogi was terrible… To 1992′s point he shut down Appling again (1-8 FG, 6 pts, 4 TO’s) and had a positive assist ratio 5:2

    He’s been better, but that’s pretty respectable for a freshman in that environment with that much responsibility.

  • Podunker #35


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:15 PM EDT

    iulongago, I don’t consider you a troll. But I disagree with you that Crean screwed up the end of the Illinois game (I might concede the Butler game, but not Illinois). IU’s players screwed up and lost that game in Champaign!

    Some times I think, conditioned by the legend of Bob Knight, people place too much stock in what a coach is capable of doing. The players are not robots, they are young men. The make mistakes and they occasionally lose games. IU’s players lost that game at IL, not Crean. But Crean made sure they learned from that experience and the OSU victory was a result. That’s good coaching!

  • iulongago #36


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:25 PM EDT

    PODUNKER–I agree that Crean made them learn from the end of that Illinois game. They either didn’t protect that lead because they weren’t coached as to how to do so or they didn’t do what they were coached to do. However, they learned. You and I agree more than we disagree. This is a very Good and Encouraging night. More to come.

  • Gunner #37


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:26 PM EDT

    What a game, what a win. Can’t believe my gf actually sat through the entire game with me with the way i was yelling at the tv tonight. The cheap shot on Zeller and nothing happens? To have them say they couldnt see enough evidence to make a call when I sat and watched 3 replays of it was laffable! The inbound play with :10 to go was an absolute beauty. The Watford 3 point play was so clutch. Great win!

  • Podunker #38


    Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:26 PM EDT

    Geoff, Yogi was not terrible tonight, he was just terrible on offense. I know he played good defense, but he was a no show on offense. Did he score any points? How many layups did he miss?

    He’s got to learn (quickly) that after a stupid turnover/mistake, he can’t compound the error by fouling at the other end of the court. He’s done that at least once in several recent games.

    I love Yogi, and I love his future as IU’s Point Guard, but if we’re to reach our full potential this year, he’s got to make layups, make free throws, and continue to play solid defense. But what I love about this team is that when one players is having an off night, the other pick up the slack and compensate. Crean really has built a wonderful TEAM.

  • AWinAZ #39


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:09 AM EDT

    What a team effort tonight! Everybody contributed, except Hollowell. He was the only Hoosier that showed lack of awareness and seemed intimidated. I was very impressed tonight, especially by the comeback, down 4, with less than 2 to play. Oladipo just didnt want to lose. Z hits from everywhere, takes a cheap shot to the boys, and holds more than his own. CWat hits a HUGE runner & 1 in the final min. Hulls hitting bombs & big, big shots. Yogi played great D & took away Appling AGAIN! Will played solid. Bench played key spells tonight.

    And BIG KUDOs to Crean for the game plan. He came out man to man, & clearly MSU was expecting the loose 2-3 again tonight. They were confused for the first 5 min. They struggled all night from 3 & tried to just out-box us with brawn.

    And I’ve never seen a game with so many monitor reviews. unreal. that’s all that needs to be said I think.

  • TsaoTsuG #40


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:20 AM EDT

    Geoff, I made myself a bet that unrelated to the actual game and score, your first comment would be about…”the refs tried to ____ Indiana! Only then I saw your five points and thought, of course even more so the only way to rescue the ‘air ball’ on the points.

    A suggestion, stop worrying about the officiating and start looking at the game. I saw plenty of reasons why we won it and nearly as many where WE could have lost it.

    But hey!! Great win!…we did enough and hung on. Tomorrow I’ll think and worry about all the things we messed up or did not do…but it won’t have anything to do with the refs.

  • Geoff #41


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:30 AM EDT

    Po – yeah Yogi had 6 points. He also had 5 assists to only 2 turnovers. He did miss a couple gimmes, but that didn’t make him terrible… Just means there’s room for improvement.

    He directly contributed on at least 20% of the teams points.

    On the season he’s averaging 7.3 and 4.3 assists (therefore directing contributing to about 17 points per game) on 39% shooting.

    Tonight he contributed at least 16 points (maybe more if any of his assists led to 3′s or 3 point plays) on 33% shooting. (while only turning it over twice in 29 minutes)

    So I’d say he was average on offense, which considering the stakes and environment is pretty damn good.

  • psych #42


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:32 AM EDT

    I join Podunker in asking where all the trolls are. Come on out, boys and girls!

    What a huge win. I had to watch on DVR (at work until 9:30), so I stroked out a couple hours after all of you did. Still alive though to savor in the biggest win of the year. Oh, and Derrick Nix, enjoy the NBDL.

  • AWinAZ #43


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:39 AM EDT

    Enjoy this ride my friends! For we COULD…

    …win the whole damn thing
    …& lose CWat, Hulls, Oladipo & Z
    …& if the above happens I don’t know who shoots the 3 next season regardless

    Looks like next Year’s starting line up is :
    Yogi
    Sheehey
    Hollowell or Williams
    Mosquera-perea? (God help us)
    Vonleh

    Looks like a middle of the pack Big 10 team to me, unless Remy develops his inner ‘Dipo.

    Enjoy the ride fans!

  • TsaoTsuG #44


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:41 AM EDT

    The clock issue at the end was laughable but it was also handled right there. Embarrassing? My dad used to say ‘the only thing that is embarrassing is to steal and come back with nothing.’

    The foul on Cody was a clear push. Watched the incident involving Cody’s reproductive system and it was obvious something happened and Cody was not happy, but looking at the play over 2-3 times I could not see the actual blow to call it a foul. It is not enough that it happened, the referees (one of the three) has to see it and call it. In this case, I was waiting for a call and/or but the angle may have hid it. I (meaning I) did not see the actual foul so I can’t say the no-call was wrong.

    (p.s.- I thought the Oladipo cut to the basket was sheer genius. When he scored everyone was still looking at the floor for the expected foul.)

  • Geoff #45


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:42 AM EDT

    Tsao – of course there are more things unrelated to the refs than there are that are related. I get pissed off at stupid mistakes and delight in well-executed basketball.

    Here’s the thing… We can work underneath oob defense. We an work on defensive rotations. We can work on finding more creative ways to get Cody the ball. We can work on cutting down unforced TO’s. Crean can bench players that are under-performing or not improving.

    But we can’t work on getting better at taking a nut-shot from the defender… or how not to turn it over when being tackled… Nor can we really mentally prepare to get screwed on a call like the Sheehey foul at the end of the game… Refs don’t get benched when they suck.

    I praise the good. I point out the bad. I bitch about the refs. They’re all part of the game.

    Death and taxes Tsao… Death and taxes.

  • TsaoTsuG #46


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:51 AM EDT

    No Podunker, we do not agree. Also, I’ve began to notice that every week is ‘the worst officiated game ever seen, not just by you but by a number of IU fans. Y prefer to believe that we play well enough so that the officiating doesn’t matter either way.

    But, it is hard to believe that every week, twice a week the refs- for some conspiratorial motive- try to stick it to us.

    The balance. We won, YESSS! Still, the only sure thing is that we have another game this weekend and have to win it.

  • Geoff #47


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:56 AM EDT

    Tsao – you’re the only one who doesn’t think that was an embarrassing night for the clock guy. It’s getting play all over SC. My comments were in real time! And I was unsure how it would turn out. Neither Crean nor i was very appy in the moment. The refs got it right, but it was definitely an embarrassment.

    You are also the only one who didn’t see the Nix cheap shot. Even Magic and Vitale were clear that it was a flagrant and that there “is no place for that in college basketball”… Even MSU fans are saying how embarrassed they are by that play on Yahoo and ESPN. How could you not see it!?There was a clear angle, which they replayed several times… and then they blew it up and played it in slo-mo! No mistaking it besides you and Hightower.

    Not sure what you’re referencing on the Cody push.

  • Geoff #48


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:01 AM EDT

    Tsao – I’ve never said the refs were out to get us. I just hate that they are so incompetent. There’s a difference between bias and incompetence. And I only bitch when the refs are bad, which isn’t every game or every week.

  • Geoff #49


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:02 AM EDT

    Good night.

    Great win!

  • Geoff #50


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:09 AM EDT

    Sorry… Ted Vantine… Not Hightower. Valentine has always been a joke.

  • AWinAZ #51


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:15 AM EDT

    I’ve seen the following plays at least 9 times tonight & this is what I’ll offer….

    ….Z’s continuation “play” was a ref brainfart. We benefitted by 3 pts.
    ….Yogi was indeed tackled & hit by 2 players on that drive in the 2H.
    ….Will’s last foul was another brainfart. Give me a break! This call could’ve cost us the game. It was a clear joke. As we say “Jesus Knows” & it worked out for us very well.
    …Nix moved his pivot foot thrice, yes thrice, on the play near the MSU bench in the 2H….no call.
    …Dipo hit in the arm & side of the head was grazed on the breakaway pass by CWat late & under 1 min. Where’s that foul when it counted?

    This game was more like a football game than a basketball game. The amazing thing, and credit to our kids, is that we still won.

    Oh, and did I mention the clock?

  • AWinAZ #52


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:19 AM EDT

    True story…my good MSU grad friend sent me this message:

    “We couldn’t take advantage of those homer calls. We blew it at crunch time.”

    Enough said I think.

  • TsaoTsuG #53


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:24 AM EDT

    The ‘Cody’ push (as I labeled it), was Cody’s forearm on a drive (he got correctly called for the ‘flagrant’). At the same time, the Nix blow was there but hard to see for the ref on the baseline. Cody’s own body would have blocked the view. Yes, from a different angle you could see the foul, but the referee Cody looks back at after the foul is being blocked and has no idea what has happened.

    Your obsessed. Please don’t fall in-love with me. I’m too old for romantic involvements during the basketball season.

  • TsaoTsuG #54


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:36 AM EDT

    Ohh…and the clock Geoff…they fixed it immediately so there was nothing to moan about. I agree, the time keeper screwed it up. Was it intentional ?(like added time in soccer,when they can add whatever they feel like). I don’t know but there was no question they noticed it and handled it and addressed it. No harm…no foul. You must be very stressed, reread my #44.

    Your sentences:
    “you’re the only one who doesn’t think that was an embarrassing night for the clock… and:
    “You are also the only one who didn’t see the Nix cheap shot. Magic and Vutale…”

    Geoff, I gave enough trying to handle your infatuation…

  • TsaoTsuG #55


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:46 AM EDT

    IUFootballLongAgo’s #24 and AWinAZ’s #51 are both really good posts, within their context. The officiating just let them go at it, but generally equally so. And, the bottom line, IU showed it is deserving of the attention, the praises and the reputation it is getting for good, skilled, tough basketball in the toughest conference in the country. It says a whole lot about this team.

    Think anyone will talk about our absence’ when we play outside Assembly Hall. If you are a good basketball player in his freshman/sophomore year you WANT to hear from Indiana because “It’s Indiana!”

    And Hoosiers, always play so that the refereeing is not an issue.

  • Ron #56


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 9:00 AM EDT

    I think Vitale, of all people, summarized officiating last night. Something along the line of NCAA and schools are making millions on this game and it’s time to have real full-time refs.

    Magic seemed impressed with the Hoosiers. Praised Crean, and the players. Seemed as his positive statements were each immediately marginalized by Vitale. Magic “Zeller has everything”. Vitale “He needs to get stronger”. Got the feeling Vitale having trouble with IU success over the status of KY and Duke programs.

    When you see IU beating a team like MS, at MS, you start to realize how good these kids may be.

    Turned out not to be the bloodbath predicted but a really strong effort and quality win against a quality team.

  • Geoff #57


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:43 AM EDT

    Tsao – so “Zeller push” = Watford flagrant foul…. That’s why I was confused.

    Couple points there… There was no intent to hit him in the chops. It just happened. Its a dumb rule to call that a technical. It’s not the refs fault it’s the NCAA’s for creating the rule. The only reason you legislate a play like that is to try to prevent it in the future and keep kids safe. But you cannot legislate out a play where there is no intent.

    That being said, did Watford hit him in the face – sure. The ref missed it in real time and then went back and saw it on replay.

    Now, the Nix play was intentional. He took a bit of a shot when Cody was going in for a lay-up… Maybe in the fellas with Cody’s off hand. That was the reaction he made. So he decided to try to get Cody back… That means ” intent”. Was Valentine blocked out by Cody’s body – yes, so he missed it in real time just like he missed the Watford flagrant in real time. But the whole point is that they went back and looked at replays to (by the letter of the law) correctly call the Watford play, but when they went back and watched replays of the Nix play they blew it.

    Neither play was called a technical in real time. one was intentional. One was not. Both were reviewed. Only one was correctly administered after the fact. Both calls went against IU.

    I’m not obsessed with you Tsao. You are the one who likes to give me crap for bitching about the refs.

  • Hoosier Clarion #58


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:53 AM EDT

    I agree wholeheartedly with PO, AZ and Geoff on the piss poor officiating last night and consider it a separate farce from the last moments performance by the timekeeper which was a double piss poor triple + sham. At least the on-floor refs did shine while the spotlight was squarely on them during the time clock issues. The B1G has to get a grip on these recurring wrongs.

    Geoff is on cue about YF’s play, his 1st responsibility was to protect the ball, 2nd to keep Appling neutralized and 3rd be enough scoring threat MSU had to be concerned on D. Mission accomplished. In the tournament some of those bunnies will go in and next season most of them certainly will. Other than FT shooting I was really satisfied with he and CW last night.

  • Geoff #59


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:53 AM EDT

    Btw, Crean was just on Mike & Mike and even they brought up the reffing last night. Crean was clear that he wasn’t happy, especially considering the veteran nature of the crew.

  • Geoff #60


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:05 AM EDT

    Tsao – answer this for me… Was Crean calm and collected when the clock didn’t roll?

    Because what I saw was him flipping out at half court, yelling at the refs and pointing at the clock manager.

    Why, in the moment, would I have any confidence that the refs would appropriately work that replay? A couple minutes earlier they had just taken multiple looks at a replay of Nix intentionally back-handing Cody in the nuts and didn’t get that right….

    So, between the stakes of the game, the importance of the moment, and the very recent history of official replay failings, I feel my post #16 was rather subdued.

    Congrats to Pat Driscoll for taking on the responsibility of grabbing the stop watch and getting it right. God knows what would have happened if Valentine were in charge of those 2 clock issues.

  • Geoff #61


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:19 AM EDT

    Ok, taking everything into consideration… The fact that the stuff we can’t control didn’t cost us a win or a notch down in the B1G standings…

    I am actually grateful in hindsight for all that adversity. In the moment it is endlessly aggravating. But in the aftermath it’s just another feather in our boys’ caps. They should have enormous pride in that win and more sold confidence going forward that they can overcome any circumstances against any team.

  • Hoosier Clarion #62


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:31 AM EDT

    …Indubitably…

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #63


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:10 PM EDT

    Geoff-

    Your post #57 is an excellent explanation. Exactly how I saw it. How can we, the television viewers, upon replay, see the obvious “intentional” smack in the Cody-pods committed “flagrantly” by Nix, but the refs can’t seem to get a good look over at the sideline replay?

    There are always blown calls in games…One of the biggest blown calls was allowing Cody the bucket(à la NBA continuation call)on his drive to the basket..I’m not even sure if he didn’t take steps in addition to committing what appeared to be a charge.

    But when a foul is in the category of intentionally attempting to hurt a kid, the review tape serves as protecting players and keeping the game under control.

    How can you call it one way against Watford(what appeared to be an unintentional hit to the Payne’s nose) and not use the film to make the right call when Nix takes a cheap shot to Cody’s twins in the duffel bag?

    Must give you kudos for how well you perceived Oladipo’s rise to the top. You’re almost as good as Crean. I never imagined he could become such a complete player. Many times the athleticism doesn’t equate to mastering all the skills on the court. I’ve been mostly impressed by his improvement in the jump shots and 3-point facet of his game. His defense…His ability to get through traffic. His rebounding..His open court speed…His poise..His explosiveness to the rim…and now, his jump shot. It’s truly difficult to find a flaw in his game. You nailed it months ago. You saw it coming.

  • Geoff #64


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:15 PM EDT

    Almost Harvard…. I wonder if I can get almost of his paycheck somewhere…

    But yeah, thanks.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #65


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:16 PM EDT

    I would never replace the Hoosiers proving they can win the big road games, but I wonder if the loss is not such a bad thing for MSU…? Nothing like a bit of humble pie on the eve of March Madness.

    MSU is a very dangerous team. As Valentine gets more PT and Trice gets healthy, they become even deeper and more dynamic. And how impressive is Payne. They are very similar in make up to the Hoosiers..We have more the “it factor” with Oladipo…Spartans may have the edge at point guard and inside depth.

    I don’t know how you keep the Spartans out of the Final Four.

  • Ron #66


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:38 PM EDT

    And there was Jordy. Watching him running around the court on defense. Got beat on a couple of plays but I thought he more than held his own. Couple of plays he was again the last man standing between MS & the basket.

    Will and whoever he was guarding at the time were both out of bounds more than on the court. Will not letting anything go through his man.

  • Podunker #67


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 7:41 PM EDT

    Tsao, your post #46 made me realize that I have not fully explained my opinion regarding the Big Ten refs.

    Generally, I think Big Ten refs do a poor job. They are inconsistent, both from game to game and within games. Some of their non-calls have been epic, and last night’s game included one of the worst non-calls I’ve seen in a long time. I also believe the refs are far too susceptible to being influenced/intimidated by the home crowd, and the established coaches. Specifically, I think the refs’ interpretation or application of the rules favors the less skillful teams and the less talented players. For example, I believe Cody Zeller is the most talented and skilled “center” in the Big Ten. If you’re an opposing coach, how do you neutralize the advantage Zeller represents to IU? You utilize the refs to your advantage by telling your team to hack him, push him, shove him, hold him, play physical. Of course, you double team him, but regardless, you make sure he has a hard time getting shots off, especially shots around the rim. In essence, you’re daring the refs to call all the fouls your players must commit in order to stop Zeller from scoring at will. Since you’re likely to lose if Zeller is not “contained,” you’ve got nothing to lose if you deploy the hack & crack strategy and a few of your big men foul out of the game. And if your players don’t foul out, you have been successful in getting the refs to provide a significant advantage for your less talented/skillful team!

    I just don’t believe that’s the way the game of basketball should be played. It should be a game of skill and coordination, not a controlled mugging. When it is allowed to become a mugging, the less skilled teams have a significant advantage, and frankly, the game is not as entertaining.

    Another example! Sheehey’s mystery foul of the three-point shooter toward the end of the game. There was no foul. How was what Sheehey did considered a foul? But the refs, being influenced by the crowd, were predisposed to call a foul in that situation. The shooter initiated the contact. Sheehey was standing there with his arms straight up in the air. Three FTs were awarded to the shooter, and those three shots could have tied the game. It was not the skill of the shooter that influenced the game, it was the ref’s terrible call. And compare that call to when the refs, after having watched a replay of Zeller getting whacked in the stones on purpose, decided that no foul had been committed. Ridiculous.

    The Big Ten refs get paid, but they perform like amateurs. The Conference needs to do a better job of training the refs and holding them accountable for their performance. The quality and consistency of the refs must improve so that the fans can enjoy a game of skill, ball movement and athleticism, the way the game of basketball was meant to be played. Otherwise the games devolve and the less talented teams have an advantage.

  • elmo #68


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 8:52 PM EDT

    tsao there,s no use trying to prove anything to Podunker,because he knows everything about the game. It,s always the refs or something. Love I.U.but don,t think Crean does a good job of x&o it. Time will tellI,m sure Podunker will have an answer for me. bring it on.

  • TsaoTsuG #69


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:26 PM EDT

    Elmo, with all due respect, I think Podunker is the model of a great Hoosier fan; he’s there before and after the game, win or loss. He’ll also argue, but as an up-front guy, giving his opinion (I know, I’ve argued with him plenty here). He never, never mocks (weeelll, …maybe Debbie,… but I don’t think she exists).

    Give me 50,000 like him. (You’re a good guy too Elmo).

  • Podunker #70


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:40 PM EDT

    Well elmo, I have to give you credit. I believe you’re the only person to express a hint of criticism about Tom Crean on the Hoosier Scoop today. I just don’t see how anyone can say that they “don’t think Crean does a good job of x & o it.” Happy to read your attempt to back that opinion up. What specifically did he do wrong with the x’s and o’s last night. How should he do it differently. Please, be more specific if time permits.

    By the way, if IU wins the National Championship this year, will you still criticize Crean’s coaching ability? I mean, at what point do people stop criticizing Crean? I’m being sincere in that question. I just don’t get it. Aside from winning the NCAA championship, what more can the man do?

  • TsaoTsuG #71


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:58 PM EDT

    Podunker, in reality, people some time ago should have recognized we were damned lucky to have Crean accept to lead this process. The problem with being a Hoosier coach is that there are always about 5,000,000 who know more than the coach.

    Do you think they’ll ever understand that the coach’s job is to bring in assistant coaches, each of whom know more than he does at some aspect of the game (recruiting, defenses, shooting, offensive options, x’s and o’s, physical training). I know a lot of CEO’s who don’t know much about accounting or finance but do a great job of leading those who do. And Generals who know little about

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #72


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:29 PM EDT

    There’s plenty of guys that can win championships and still be slimeballs…Isn’t that how most now refer to Knight? And isn’t Crean’s good friend, that championship winner down there in Lexington, a testament to fine character in the game? Hell, Wooden won ten titles and many now claim he was nothing but a cheat. Everybody looks great with the “X’s and O’s” when they have oodles of the best talent in the country. Much of coaching has been replaced by personality…Maybe it’s possible the analytical bar has been lowered in the “elite” programs and the major conference programs…Maybe some damn fine stratagems and fundamentals teachers at the mid-majors but they suffer to get the exposure to recruit the cream of the crop.

    And let’s face it, as stated in the game last night by the very astute announcing crew, having a coaching job in Indiana is an already unfair advantage..Not only has Indiana has provided the dominant share of the top talent in the conference, but the kids that come out of this state already have a bachelors degree in b-ball education eclipsing all other areas of the country. The knowledge of the game is deeply rooted in the long line of esteemed coaches a high school tradition in the game unparalleled. Crean has admitted many times that Zeller really needs no coaching.

    Lastly, we would love all successful individuals(business, politics, sports, media, entertainment)thought of as “winners” to be classy decent people, but unfortunately, they all can’t be Donald Trump. I’m sure Donald hires plenty of talent..I’ve heard the guy can really recruit. His hair is his most genuine asset.

  • TsaoTsuG #73


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:30 PM EDT

    Geoff, Crean was confident because he had read your #1 and knew that Payne would not be a problem, Harris was under control and either CZ or Watford would have Nix puking in fear;…so our only concern were the zebras and you had those under observation.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #74


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:45 PM EDT

    And if IU does manage to claim the prize of all prizes in the NCAA college game, then in the humble opinion of this blogger, the first guy up the ladder to cut a piece of treasured net should be Mo Creek…Mo should clip off two big chunks..One for himself and one for Austin Etherington.

    Oladipo and Sheehey are great talents that would have rotted in obscurity as we remained in the cellar of the Big 10 without Mo Creek and the rest of the great base to the pyramid(Yes, that’s for Wooden); Jordy and Austin’s tireless efforts pounding the “Because it’s Indiana” drums in the ears of “the Movement.”

    Crean puts his faith in Joyce Meyer and his notoriety achieved from marrying into a sports family..Hulls, Danny Moore, Mo Creek, Tom Pritchard, Derek Elston, Yogi, Cody, Jeremy, put their faith in each other and the immortal powers of the candy-stripes.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #75


    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 11:56 PM EDT

    The only reason we mention “zebras” in all these contests so religiously is because their stripes in this realm of hardwood planks rather than open African plain serve as a different camouflage. The hunting lion, the scary jungle beast we must hide, is the inadequacy and ineptitude, a helpless colorless horse’s a$$ on the sideline..Yes, even in victory and narrow escape our winning survival, talking of “zebras” is great camouflage.

  • big bird #76


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 1:45 AM EDT

    Aside from winning the NCAA championship, what more can the man do?

    Okay, when did Crean win an NCAA championship?

    Crean remains a clown. His exophthalmic coaching style is sans pareil.

    Can’t write more at the moment as I enjoy AZ beating UW badly.

    Promise to write more over the weekend. XOXO.

  • Punjab #77


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:19 AM EDT

    Finally slogged through the discussion threads over the past day and a half. Great posts, everyone. Nice to see so many well-made arguments with minimal name-calling and one-upsmanship. Couldn’t be prouder of my Hoosiers, both on the court and from their keypads.

    Watching the game and hyperventilating down here in Central America, I was surprised to get so many high fives and attaboys (as if i had anything to do with the outcome…) from people who had no emotional stake in the game whatsoever. Even my bitter Buckeye neighbor a few doors down recognized my candy-striped breakaway pants and Oladipo jersey and offered his congratulations. He agreed that last night probably cemented our status as the best team in the county. Everybody believes in us, now.

    I was as pleasantly surprised as everyone else at the silence of the trolls. There were, as usual, fair criticisms (I don’t think anybody brought up that bizarre play call to end the first half or Vic’s ill-advised airball from deep– did that get partially blocked?) but even the haters can’t hate much on such an impressive victory. Well done, Hoosiers.

    Next Tuesday seems so far away.

  • Punjab #78


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:22 AM EDT

    Ha. Spoke too soon. Didn’t see Big Turd’s post until just now. Thanks for providing some levity.

  • big bird #79


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:28 AM EDT

    Punkjob, you’re welcome.

    Players bailed Crean out once more.

    He still remains responsible for the loss at Illinois.

  • big bird #80


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:29 AM EDT

    best team in the county.

    Sure. Best team in town, even.

  • Punjab #81


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 7:12 AM EDT

    I forget sometimes that coaches are solely responsible for losses, and players only win games. I think my four-year-old first taught me that.

    Nice catch on the county, though. That’s pretty funny.

  • Podunker #82


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 1:05 PM EDT

    O.K., so big bird has established himself as one of the most robust trolls participating on the Hoosier Scoop. Clearly he has a severe case of TCDS, which appears to deprive a person of logic, produce juvenile behavior and affects their ability to interpret the written word. At least he’s not suffering in silence. One get’s the vision that ever since IU’s victory over MSU, the other trolls and victims of TCDS are sitting around in the basement of their mother’s homes babbling incoherently and scratching themselves.

  • @fairfield #83


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:42 PM EDT

    Elmo/4guards consecrated himself as the Hoosier Nation’s All Time Biggest Idiot a long time ago, when he called Crean’s 2011 recruiting class an abysmal failure.

    Now we are in the midst of seeing that class produce one of the highest drafted and most celebrated Hoosiers ever.

    Elmo was probably praising the Blazers’ decision to pick Bowie over Jordan in 1984. I

  • Geoff #84


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 3:03 PM EDT

    Wanted to address a couple things that have been brought up…

    1) X’s & O’s – I thought Crean really shined on Tuesday. There were so many (correct) adjustments made from the first game. Getting Cody the ball in places he could be successful. Switching Watford onto Nix and playing 3/4 front with backside help and blind-side double teams. Not helping off Harris and making every 3 very contested. Shortening the rotation to essentially 6 players.

    Crean was OUTSTANDING on Tuesday (well, really in the practices leading up to Tuesday) . So were the players.

    2) Punjab brought up the play call going into half time…. That was really odd. They had something like 6.2 seconds, which is plenty of time to advance the ball from the backcourt and have options. My guess is he wanted to practice the pass and catch in a contested, meaningful situation, against a quality opponent, to see what happened. Generally Watford is the QB in those situations, but with this play he was the WR… So probably just a dry run to see what adjustments need to be made for the tournament.

    Oh, and yes Punjab, I do believe the Dipo shot had a finger on it causing it to come up 6 feet short. I was surprised the announcers acted like nothing happened.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #85


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 4:14 PM EDT

    Even the best of long distance shooters sometimes loose the perfect soft fingertip grip on the ball…resulting in the occasional air ball. Those that have poor rotation likely chuck up fewer air balls than pure shooters…They always hit the iron due to too strong a grip on Mr. Wilson as the they throw brick after brick at cylinder.

    Excuses put on the backs of referees some of our forgone points…But now we’re so flawless that we’re even making dumb excuses for once in a blue moon air balls?

    Didn’t Watford also shoot an air ball against MSU?

    Was Watford’s shot not tipped..? Or maybe it’s just the fact that Oladipo is incapable of one foul-up or embarrassment.

    Geoff’s obsession with “mini” Michael is starting to move from cute to slightly creepy.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #86


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 4:15 PM EDT

    oops…sometime [lose] the perfect soft fingertip

  • Lord of the Beluga Bull #87


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 5:17 PM EDT

    @fairfield attempts to contain his Hoosier pride.

  • Geoff #88


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 5:22 PM EDT

    There is a difference between being 2 inches right of the hoop… and being 6 feet short.

    No one has ever been 6 feet short of the hoop on a normal 3-pt attempt at the college level.

  • Ron #89


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 6:42 PM EDT

    Did you see the video of the high school girl free throw? Went maybe 3′. She said her finger got stuck in her nose.?

  • TsaoTsuG #90


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 6:48 PM EDT

    No Harvard, it h to be a perfectly measured and timed little pinky block that the scorer should have registered as a ‘blocked shot’. It’s the only conceivable possibility we should consider, just as explained by Geoff; after all, he wrote the ’5 Things for MSU Game’ prior to the MSU game.

    I din’t realize it nor thought about sending Dipo a tweet. After re-reading the ’5 Things…’ , I did not see any addressed to Oladipo telling him how to shoot a shot of that magnitude. So how would Oladipo to do it without correct instruction?

    Wanna help. Give Dipo a break! This summer send him to the Gooffy Summer Basketball Camp.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #91


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 7:47 PM EDT

    Please feel free to inspect the provided frozen footage showing the Oladipo air ball(highlighted by yellow circle) at the 4:41 mark.

    Note: There is some estimations and subjective interpretations of the ball’s approaching angle/arch, but I believe it’s a pretty fair estimation of distance in the short-armed 3-pointer.

    Also note that the air ball was caught by an MSU player that was standing well underneath the rim…The provided diagrams within the frozen footage and the positioning of the MSU player that caught the air ball at waist level the base point of its descent all combine to disprove Geoff’s complete exaggerations a shot that was 6′ short of its target.

  • Geoff #92


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 8:47 PM EDT

    Thanks for providing the time on the clock that it happened. I just went back and watched it. It is clear and obvious that the ball is tipped at the release point.

    You can debate it if you want, but it’s clear and obvious.

    That is also why the MSU player lunged for it to prevent it from going out of bounds.

    And it was definitely more than 18″ and definitely less than 6′

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #93


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 8:56 PM EDT

    18-24″ from the front catching the front of the iron..And if you watch the footage, the MSU player has to extend much further under the basket than what’s depicted in the provided frozen clip in my post #91. No way does the ball finish its flight that far under the rim while being anymore than around 18″ short of target.

    And I still don’t think the ball was tipped. Dipo was just out of his range. It happens. He’s not Matt Roth or Eric Gordon..or even Jordy when it comes to a comfort level a couple feet behind the 3-pt. line. I think he just short-armed it.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #94


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 8:57 PM EDT

    correction: 18-24″ from the [leading edge of the ball] catching the front of the iron…

  • Geoff #95


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:04 PM EDT

    That ball wasn’t tipped, kinda like Nix didn’t hit Cody in the boys…

  • Geoff #96


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:12 PM EDT

    Actually now that I watch it again, from the MSU perspective, I’m convinced that Dipo blocked his own shot causing it to be 30″ short

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #97


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:17 PM EDT

    Out of his range. Short-armed it.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #98


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:21 PM EDT

    You actually had one valid argument…

    The MSU defender(nowhere near the extension required in blocking the shot) caught Oladipo at the base of the wrist, but the crappy biased Establishment refs refused to make the easy call.

  • Geoff #99


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:26 PM EDT

    Nobody at that level has ever short-armed a shot at that distance by 36″… Ever.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #100


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:38 PM EDT

    It’s not anywhere near 36′ shy of the rim….I’ve watched the footage. The MSU defender is practically at the baseline when he catches the ball. If the shot was 3 feet short of the cylinder, then the MSU player catches the ball in front of a line drawn perpendicular from the edge of the rim…Short-armed or fouled.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #101


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:39 PM EDT

    …not anywhere near 36″ shy of the rim.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #102


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:43 PM EDT

    And you originally said 6 feet..Now it’s down to 36″…Soon you’ll be at the reality of the matter..It was about 18″ short from catching the front of the rim…I’ll give you the extra 6″ and make it 24″ if we’re talking center of the rim

  • Geoff #103


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 9:52 PM EDT

    Actually I was up to 36″, but now that I look at it again I’m convinced it’s more like 42″

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #104


    Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 10:51 PM EDT

    I’m sure you’re practically in the business of exaggerating inches…Pretty much explains everything you look at again.

  • Geoff #105


    Friday, February 22, 2013 - 9:41 AM EDT

    I don’t have to exaggerate any more Harvard…. I’m married.

Scoop Poll:

Can the Hoosiers make a bowl game without Nate Sudfeld?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

IU vs Michigan State Football






Find Notre Dame football coverage on NDInsider.com. © Hoosier Times Inc., all rights reserved.