Lyle appreciates Crean’s honesty

95 comments by   |   Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 1:06 am EDT

When Jaquan Lyle shot up the national recruiting rankings after the summer following his freshman year at Evansville Bosse, he had hordes of people telling him how great he was, and his ego was admittedly swelling. Indiana, the first school to offer him a scholarship, certainly played a part in it, but IU coach Tom Crean was also the first and only person at the time who was willing to take him down a peg.

Lyle, now heading into his senior season at Bosse as the No. 17 rated player in the Class of 2014, admits he didn’t appreciate that at the time, but he does now.

“He told me a lot of stuff I didn’t want to hear,” Lyle said. “That’s was whenever I was first put into the rankings. My head was big, and when I had a meeting with him, it really brought me down and it humbled me. Now I am where I am.”

The recent in-home visit he had with Crean and IU assistant coach Steve McClain had a similar tone, but Lyle said he was much more amenable to it this time around.

“That was my second time meeting with Coach Crean on a serious note, but it was the first time my mother and grandmother were around,” Lyle said. “I think that went real well. Him and coach McClain came down and just broke everything down to me and that went real well. …I just took it differently (before) because I was a lot younger. He told me what I needed to hear, and I didn’t like it then, but now, he told me what I need to here when I like it. It’s not always good to hear what you like to hear, it’s good what you need to hear. He just dropped a lot of stuff on me academic wise, player-development wise and what I need to work on. It went real well.”

In terms of specifics, Lyle said the Hoosiers want him to be a better decision maker. They’re impressed by the 6-foot-5, 190-pound point guard’s playmaking ability and passing, but they want him to be more disciplined.

As much as Lyle appreciated Crean’s advice, that doesn’t mean he’s a sure bet to be a Hoosier. He recently narrowed his list, but there are still seven teams on it. Indiana is part of that list along with Louisville, Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Illinois and UCLA, which just recently extended a scholarship offer. Lyle said he will take all five of his official visits in the fall before making a decision.

“I’m just really taking my time and enjoying the process,” he said. “There’s still a long time to go, and we’ll see where it takes me.”

AUDIO: Jaquan Lyle

 

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95 comments:
#1 Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 1:41 AM EDT

In my opinion, JL is not a good fit for IU. The more I’m exposed to him in interviews the more red flags I see. If it didn’t bother a person before about him “enjoying the process” all these years, the fact that UCLA is magically part of his list should be enough to make you shake your head. Of the three amigos, we got the right one in Blackmon.

 
#2
Geoff
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 2:15 AM EDT

Yeah, I get what you’re saying Aruss.

 
#3
Chet
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 8:16 AM EDT

I agree. He might need a little more ego stroking than anyone is gonna give him at Cook Hall.

 
#4
Weatherman
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 9:53 AM EDT

While I agree that he seems like a higher-maintenance player than we have gotten used to, I am not as quick to dismiss him as others. The worst I’ve heard about him is that he is immature and selfish, and while the program is clearly dominated by players who aren’t those things, not everyone is going to be an angel. It takes talent to win championships, especially in the back court, so until I hear something worse than I have so far, I will continue to hope he ends up here.

Moreover, his loss — and I believe he will indeed go elsewhere — will only add to an ongoing exodus of talent in this state. From 2011 through the reasonable projections for 2014, we have lost or are likely to lose Marquis Teague, Branden Dawson, Mitch McGary, Gary Harris, Glenn Robinson III, Zak Irvin, Trey Lyles, Jaquan Lyle, Demetrius Jackson, and Trevon Bluiett. During that time we have landed Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell, and (presumably) James Blackmon, but the bottom line is that we continue to miss out on the bulk of 5 star talent produced in this state. Three of those players have already started in a national championship game, and if Michigan State is as good as advertised next year, two more could easily join the list.

Obviously our national recruiting is going quite well, but it is safe to say that a banner’s worth of talent has passed on IU even since Cody’s commitment supposedly made it cool to be a Hoosier again. For reasons I can guess at but don’t truly understand, we still don’t have great traction with local players. I’m not sentimental about it, but as a practical matter it will be harder to sustain a top 10 program if 75% of the elite talent in our own state goes elsewhere.

 
#5
Nick
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 12:42 PM EDT

He’s 17. He’s immature.

But he’s not a bad kid.

Looks like Crean has already begun working with him, and he seems receptive.

 
#6
GoodKidsOnly
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 12:43 PM EDT

I don’t care how good he is, if he’s going to be a cancer, I don’t want him on the team.

 
#7
Weatherman
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 1:01 PM EDT

Goodkids, no one wants a “cancer”, and to the best of my knowledge no one has accused Lyle of being one, so there is no real need to proclaim against it. Does the fact that Crean continues to recruit him so aggressively not offer you some assurance that he is basically a good kid? I certainly have no personal knowledge one way or the other, but Crean has a nearly spotless record of bringing solid citizens to the program, so until someone gives me more than rumor or speculation, I will assume he is basically a good kid.

 
#8
Geoff
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 2:44 PM EDT

Not that it’s a reliable source, but there was a kid on here last year claiming he went to HS with Lyle and that he was a real a-hole, entitled type at school… Probably just rumor, but it stood out because I haven’t seen those types of things being said about other recruits on here.

Weatherman, you forgot Perea and Hollowell… Both were more highly ranked than Blueitt during points of their recruitment.

Also, Jackson stayed in-state and committed to ND.

 
#9
Weatherman
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 3:24 PM EDT

Whether Jackson literally stayed within the borders is beside the point; the point is that he didn’t come to IU.

Regarding Hollowell and Perea, neither was anywhere the prospect that the other guys on my list are. Perea was ranked quite high early in his career, but had fallen significantly by the time he graduated. Hollowell was never seen as a 5 star guy.

Bluiett does not really belong on my list either, so I’ll disregard him. He scores well, but is ranked in the 40s and only a few top programs are really recruiting him.

That still means 9 of the 12 most highly rated players Indiana has produced recently have not come here (“IU”). Michigan has as many as we have, and Michigan State has almost as many. Think of what we would have looked like last year with Gary Harris and/or Mitch McGary on the roster, or what we would look like in 2014 with Jacquan Lyle and/or Trey Lyles on board. We’ll never know, but those are championship caliber players. Surely there can’t be any dispute that we would have been better with them than without, and that the program overall would be better if it were seen as a more favorable destination by the state’s best players.

 
#10
oyvey
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 4:04 PM EDT

Weatherman,
I understand your frustration, but we are not getting those players because for the most part they don’t want to come. Crean has been recruiting his butt off but he’s had very few takers. If it we were because of a lack of recruiting (Sampson, and Davis) or that we have a coach that scare the junk out of star recruits (Knight), then I would be more upset. There loss.

 
#11
Tyeblaize
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 4:39 PM EDT

I live in Evansville and have had the opportunity to watch JL play. I also hear about the issues he has had. He has had off the court issues that seem to be getting better as he is maturing. The thing that I still see that concerns me but could be addressed is consistency of play. I feel like he has the attitude that he can play at half speed and turn it on to pull out a game. If he played at the high level of intensity all the time Bosse would be State Champs. He also will shut down when things don’t go his way. If he can work through the attitude issues, he can be amazing. He has an incredible amount of talent, sees the floor well and is an amazing passer. He also is a great scorer. I have a pretty good idea of the things CTC is telling him and if he listens he would be great at IU. It will be interesting to see his senior season to see if he take the advice to heart.

 
#12
Geoff
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 6:20 PM EDT

Weatherman – your list is very subjective… I’ve made similar lists in the last week to show what a good job Crean has done in-state. By my count Crean has brought in 7 of the last top 15 recruits over the last 3 classes (’11, ’12, ’13).

I think it’s pretty tough to say guys ranked in everyone’s top 100, and being recruited by numerous blue-blood schools aren’t championship quality players… Perea, Hollowell, and Blueitt should be on every list… However, Blueitt hasn’t committed yet, so he can’t really be in this conversation yet.

Lastly, every recruiting decision has a ripple effect…

…had Lyles not decommited we most likely don’t end up with Vonleh. That was essentially the gist of the accounting, with Vonleh re-classifying into 2013. So most fans at the time this all went down last fall were fine with making that trade. Vonleh is a championship quality player, who plays the same position, who really wants to be at IU, and who will most certainly be here for at least 2 years… He just isn’t from Indiana.

…gaining a Yogi means not going after a Jackson.

…not waiting around for Harris and making sure you have a solid class regardless of his decision means you don’t end up with enough room for him and he ends up elsewhere… But what if he decides to go elsewhere and we don’t make the push for the Movement? Are we left with half a class and not nearly the good vibrations we felt all last off-season?

 
#13
Chet
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 7:35 PM EDT

“Hollowell was never seen as a 5 star guy.”

Neither was VO or Will.

 
#14
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 8:02 PM EDT

^blah…blah…blah.

Weatherman-

You’re exactly correct. Nepotism based on relationships with the Adams’ clan and AAU local crowd got us loaded up with projects and friends of top recruits that stuffed our roster with wasted scholarships.

Meanwhile, Michigan’s two biggest stars of the NCAA tournament(McGary and Albrecht)did more in a tournament run than will likely see in four years out of Perea, Jurkin, Etherington, Marlin…

Oh, and they also plucked a two skyrocketing stars in Dawson and Robinson from Northwest Indiana.

Crean keeps the the locals happy by recruiting the kids in the Indy papers.. The rest of his mission is boys from good Christian families and East Coast ballers that are too raw for most elite programs with what Geoff describes as not ready for meaningful contribution/PT but bubbling over with “NBA potential”(not banner potential).

We lost the best defensive player of “the Movement” because we were over-signed. Don’t buy into that C- garbage for a minute.

Knight recruited northern Indiana, Chicago, and Ohio. Crean is Indy(B-town backyard) and Pipeline.

He keeps the natives happy by recruiting locally and being a holier-than-thou Christian blowhard. Get’s to highlight his resume when one of his Pipeline experiments from the East gets drafted. Nepotism…cronyism…pollyannaism…self-anointment…chase down the Sampson villains. One giant tuba in the band that doesn’t know his wallet from a game plan.

Zero banners will come by way of the insecure charlatan preacher that lives to be validated and shake Bobby’s hand.

 
#15
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 8:03 PM EDT

…than [we] will likely see

 
#16
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 8:17 PM EDT

VO and Will…VO and Will. You’d think they invented cake and ice cream.

I’ll take a V8! …a ‘V’ for victory over Syracuse and an ’8′ for an Elite 8 over a VO with no “will” to stay at IU and get the ‘banner mission’ completed.

Is the NBA paying IU to get Perea ready enough to be drafted on “potential.” Seriously? That’s now IU’s new Establishment mission? We go to the expense to ready raw projects that will never be able to bring it for banners but one day bring it for Jack Nicholson?

Maybe we should just start a Hanner cloning farm funded by IU and start our own DNA/NBA league?

 
#17
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 9:05 PM EDT

I have one concern and it is a rather big one. It was mentioned last week but I don’t think it got the attention it deserved.

A.D. Fred Glass announced the coaches’ (Varsity Club’s?) tour of the state promoting Hoosier sports towards the end of thee summer. The tour included Evansville, Indianapolis, of course Bloomington, Ft. Wayne and one or two others. But, when you split Indiana along US 65 (or 31), the furthest north the tour goes in Indiana is Indianapolis. Indiana’s northwest quadrant’s Hoosier celebration is held in …Chicago.

Now, I live in Chicago and I know there are thousands and thousands of graduates who live in this great city. And, I love the culinary merits and entertainment possibilities (though not at a flesh market joint like Joe’s)are great. But we are THE state university of Indiana; not Illinois. The tax money paid to Illinois and Chicago by the affair is probably significant, shouldn’t.

And, most important, the area where it is believed IU has no presence and certainly struggles more than it should is exactly northwest Indiana. Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Illinois, even Notre Dame and Northwestern have taken note. Especially the first three have parked their tents in the Hoosier less land patches west of US I-65 and north of I-70.

Leaving out places- perhaps not well known for their football, basketball, track and field, soccer..etc athletes produced in sleepy little ‘pueblos’ like Mishawaka, Merrillville, Hobart, Crown Point, Hammond, Valparaiso, Gary, East Chicago, South Bend, Schererville, Munster, even Lafayette itself. I’ll bet Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois and quite a few others have noticed.

Oh, I know that the Chicago Hoosier Varsity Club party is done for both Chicago and The Region’s Hoosier fanatics…but it ain’t the same thing. Cleanliness is next to Godliness but Chicago ain’t in Indiana.

Let’s celebrate our entire state. .

We’are basically making a statement that Indiana University’s northern border is Indianapolis. Not very good for recruiting and certainly, I do not believe it is politically wise either Mr. Glass (very uncharacteristic of you since you seem to give a lot of attention to symbolism (not so uncharacteristic for Varsity Club leaders); and, consider that when IU is in dire need of greater general tax revenue funding from the Indiana State General Assembly they count the votes from The Region.

I’ll bet Mitch Daniels will take note.

(By the way, one last point… Just think, had we been this blind to our NW brethren and sisters 20-25 years ago we may have missed out completely on getting the celebrated Harvard foe Hillbillies to come to Bloomington and that would have been a loss!)

Mr. Glass…bring us together!

(Now Dustin, from a professional point of view; is this a sports story or what!!???? Explains a lot, this and other issues usually thrown in. And, besides…being that you cover the meetings, where would you rather go out on the town and spend the night afterwards, Portage or Chicago?)

 
#18
Chet
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 9:39 PM EDT

Hey Harvard, I can’t help but notice that you’ve been making the same post over and over for…ever. I’m pretty sure everybody gets it. You hate CTC. Mitch McGary is Michael Jordan. IU would have three more banners if they only recruited in Whiting.

Dude, I really like you but you’re turning tedious into an art form. Could you please post something different? Time and temp. Jenny Craig menus. The wit and wisdom of Mitt.

Or give it a rest.

But we all get the other stuff. Really, we get it.

 
#19
Rico Chet
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 9:50 PM EDT

^ Old Man River.

 
#20
GoodKidsOnly
Saturday, May 4, 2013 - 10:18 PM EDT

No one has ever starved more for attention than Harvard. He really has ruined this place.

 
#21
Chet
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 7:52 AM EDT

I wouldn’t go that far but he does seem to be perseverating on the same post.

 
#22
Hoosier Clarion
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 8:25 AM EDT

I like Nick and the Weatherman’s observations referring to some of the original red flags coming down with Lyle. He says in his interview he is starting to get it by now understanding what Crean was chastising him about 2 years ago. Coach Crean has hound dogged this nicely. With Blackmon being more of a 2 guard I think JL is a must. We were all awed by Cuse and their big guards.

H4H, I did not see Dawson playing in the NC game this year, nor did you.

 
#23
briansloanthemadscreener
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 8:54 AM EDT

Lets not confuse Lyle of Evansville with Lyles of Indpls Tech, I’ve never hear Lyle speak of enjoying the process. He seems much more mature than Lyles. If Crean met with him, his mom & grandma, sounds like we may be close to a commitment. As for Blueitt, I saw him play in the 6th grade, I thought he was Magic Johnson, he was a man among boys. He was much bigger than all of the other kids and handled the ball w/ ease. His team pretty much cleared out and let him handle the ball. He was so big the kids on my son’s team called him “Baby Shaq”. I hope he continues at IU or Butler so I can continue to watch him play.

 
#24
Weatherman
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 10:56 AM EDT

Geoff: Is there such a thing as an “objective” list when it comes to player rankings? It seems to me that such things are inherently subjective, even for those who evaluate recruits for a living.

Allowing for that, my list is not just my own favorite players. It is made up of those recruits who spent most or all of their high school careers with 5 star ratings. McGary is an exception, because he did slip a bit by the end of his high school years, but if I recall correctly he was at one time a top 10 player (and he showed pretty dang well as a freshman). Stars aside, the players on my list are the highest ranked players Indiana has produced in recent years, and every one of them who has played at least one year in college was good enough to have helped us. I think the fact that we have missed so many of them is notable.

Chet:

Oladipo and Sheehey not only weren’t 5 star recruits, they weren’t from Indiana. My posts have been about 5 star recruits from Indiana.

Obviously not all 5 star recruits are successful in college, and there have been plenty of 3 and 4 star recruits who turned out to be great. I mean, the two best players in the Big Ten last year came in as 3 star recruits according to most rankings, so there is no science to this. But it seems pretty self-evident to me that our chances to contend at a high level will be greater if we can more regularly attract the top talent from our home state.

 
#25 Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 11:02 AM EDT

BrianSloanthemadscreener,
Lyle is very much enjoying the process and he isn’t close to a commitment at all. He told us he’s taking all five of his official visits and I very much believe him. I follow him on Twitter and no one makes more of a point to announce every bit of recruiting news in his life than he does. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but if you believe an in-home visit with Lyle means he’s close to a commitment, you’re reading him wrong.

 
#26 Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 11:22 AM EDT

And also, should post something agreeing with Geoff’s point. Merely listing the guys Indiana didn’t get misses a lot of context. You have to consider the situation of the player and the situation of Indiana at the time of their commitment and you can see it’s not as simple as “recruits don’t see Indiana as attractive. Indiana went after Dawson (yes Harvard) but Indiana wasn’t any good yet and didn’t have the winning record to sell that Michigan State and Purdue did at the time. Indiana didn’t have an obvious starting spot for Harris. Michigan State did. As Geoff said, IU didn’t go after a point guard in the 2013 class because it got Ferrell in 2012, hence no Jackson. Also, it’s easy to look at what Indiana has and has coming in and say there were commitments Indiana should not have taken,but there was also a point when Indiana was quite bad and needed to take whatever commitments it could get just to get a positive wave of recruiting momentum started. There’s a lot of context necessary in studying all of that.

 
#27
TJ
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 11:31 AM EDT

Harvard..ALWAYS the same “issue” with you,and as I read your posting I cant help but think you REALLY are a Kentuckian that finished 5th grade after 5 years..hence your name Harvard for Hillbillies. As for the recruits NOT coming to IU..maybe a case of them wanting to get away from the “spotlight” that’s cast on them their entire high school career.How many think Gordon’s little brother will come to IU given ALL the “talk” about him and hes only a freshman…sometimes jumping out of the “frying pan” kids also get away from the fire too

 
#28 Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 11:58 AM EDT

One of the reasons Lyles of Indy gave for his decommittment was all the “love” his buddy Lyle from Evansville was getting. From everything I’ve read of Lyle from Evansville, he’s the next Shabazz and we should count ourselves lucky if he goes to UCLA.

 
#29
Weatherman
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 12:19 PM EDT

Dustin, if I were being specifically critical of Crean or otherwise assigning blame, your point about context would be appropriate, but I’m not. I have just observed that the majority of the state’s elite talent has gone elsewhere in recent years, and made the more or less irrefutable point that we would have been better if even a couple of those players had come here. We haven’t been in the running for this kind of talent for a generation, and for most of that time it was because we weren’t good. It is almost comically ironic that we can’t get most of it now because we are TOO good. I mean, if guys like Gary Harris, Demetrius Jackson, and (presumably) Jacquan Lyle go elsewhere because there are incumbents in their positions, it just adds to the oddity of the fact that the marquee program in a talent rich state continues has to rely on recruits from elsewhere.

In the end it doesn’t matter where the recruits come from; if they can play,and if they are solid citizens, all is well. Crean has shown he can attract just that kind of player/person on a national basis, so I am as happy to be an IU fan as I have been since the early 90s. Still, I can’t help but feel some some wistfulness at the thought of Gary Harris having been here last year, or Trey Lyles coming here in 2014.

 
#30
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 1:08 PM EDT

Snooki Crean will make sixteen trips to Jersey before one trip to NW Indiana.

He plays his fiddle to the Establishment and the Bibleheads.

The kids from NW Indiana were not part of The Cody Choir Club or the Adams’ family African Tall Guys for Christianity Club.

Don’t for a minute act like a kid from NW Indiana was sincerely recruited. Dawson and McGary were given very little effort..Anyone residing or near Gary are thugs. Would you come to that scene in Bloomington Crean is pushing? Come on, Dustin…Wake the hell up. The Movement wasn’t the most “elite” talent in the state. It was a “movement” of friends that attached themselves to Zeller through the AAU programs. …Friends of Cody and Friends of Christ.

The stuff that goes on in public high school gyms 100+ miles outside Indy in our great basketball state doesn’t mean crap to IU anymore. It’s about backdoor promoting a kid on a ranking site and the influences of meddlers that always want a piece of IU. Crean is getting his piece by handing out morsels to those southern white Christians that always wanted their hand in the til.

 
#31
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 1:12 PM EDT

Bob Knight may have been a giant a-hole, but he kept out the thumpers…and the cronies. You can have that power when you can coach. When you can’t coach, you need Twitter accounts, crucifixions in Ann Arbor, and praying before every game….and the plethora of deceptions a Sweet 16 becoming a National Championship.

 
#32
Chet
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 2:00 PM EDT

Oh, please. When everyone else had tired of the Self Indulgent Bobby Show THEY were the ones that still held the guy up as the model of what a coach should be. They couldn’t possibly ave been more intertwined.

 
#33
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 2:14 PM EDT

Do you want self-indulgent with coaching …or self-indulgent with the Christian coalition without coaching?

And don’t forget..Just like the polyanna Crean thumpers have always proclaimed when chopping down Mike Davis…”We only made a championship game under the self-indulgent Davis because he had Knight recruits.”

A Davis team that beat #Duke is still treated like chopped liver compared to a Crean victory over a one-man Temple team and a peanut school from Virginia.

 
#34
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 2:17 PM EDT

………..#[1] Duke

 
#35
GoodKidsOnly
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 3:11 PM EDT

The bigotry allowed on here against Christians by Harvard just astounds me.

 
#36
Podunker
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 4:04 PM EDT

This was a good string through 13 posts. Then the tired old delusional drivel was served up again.

Chet, do you REALLY like him, or was that written just for affect? That’s like saying you really like listening to the same broken record over and over and over again.

GoodKidsOnly was being polite in #20; Harvard’s posts on this blog are like turds in a punchbowl.

 
#37
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 5:50 PM EDT

It may be time to clear a couple of things up where it come to the Scoop.

Chet, the statement you make here is prototypical of all of the opinions you’ve ever given on the subject of Bob Knight. You can try to disguise them as “oh, I liked and respected Bob Knight too and thought he was a good coach, ‘BUT’…(+ some version of I couldn’t stand the degenerate sob)”. Uggh…White man speak both sides of mouth…?! Please Mr. Chet, most folks here can read in English.

HfH 2/3/4 reasons why you should consider modifying your message. Your anti-God message is getting very old, very intrusive and, mostly, very, very boring. Whether you agree or not, some of us actually do have a profound belief in Him that we would like to have respected for the very same reasons you want your own beliefs/ideas/fantastic journeys respected. I (and most others who do so, I suspect)very rarely invoke my own religious beliefs or symbols (probably having to do that I respect my Lord a whole lot more than to turn him into an ESPN comedy). But I do claim my right to be respected without reading salvos of insulting remarks that violate my sense of religious freedom, and on occasion invoke it as part of my thoughts without being spat upon every time I turn and come to one of your posts.

I believe I have (mostly) shown you respect and a frien’s affection. I have also openly stated that I do (generally) enjoy your writing and your willingness to recall some of the more wondrous aspects of being a Hoosier fan dipped and immersed in the wonderful lore, scenery, gyms, electricity and traditions of Indiana basketball (from Hickory through IU). We share that. So, I ask that you respect the traditions, beliefs, love and respect that form my history, including my right and freedom to be a Believer without facing daily aggression, insults and mockery.

There is another reason. You really do have a very good, enjoyable eye for the beauty of Indiana basketball, a true, original and unique spot on this Earth and moment in time; and, (while not necessarily agreeing with all). But it is being wasted and flushed in the whirlpool of your ‘amargura’ (the bitterness of a tango). It shouldn’t be, there is too much you can share that can make all our days more enjoyable. Try it, I miss it.

Sad that the reactive contrarian grown from drips to tidal wave rapids is eroding away at the poet and writer in you. Notice many of the most vocal of those who cry out about increasingly frequent and depressive entries aimed at your most recent writings (mostly post-Laffy) also make a point of saying even they miss the ‘good’ writing that made them notice Harvard.

Hope you listen friend.

 
#38
Ron
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 6:36 PM EDT

Well said by TTG. I just thought maybe HH had severed his last few connections to reality. Idea for a new Scoop poll; Who spreads the most poison while calling themselves IU fans…HH or Laffy. Be interesting. I’m guessing HH who as close as I can tell, hates everything done at IU over the last 6-7 yrs.

 
#39
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 6:51 PM EDT

Thanks Ron, though my intention was not to dump on hi m but to get him to revisit the great contributions and insights I saw with some frequency. He really does have a good intuitive eye for basketball and sees subtleties many miss in their obsession to empirical analysis…a good trait that often separates the good coaches from the those forced to move on to the MVC or something.

Perhaps we can coax him to rediscover HfH.

(I’m laughing. Still remember the first time I read a post of his and asked (believe Chet also asked the same thing about the same time) that he change his screen name so as to not make it seem a put down on Hoosiers. He basically told us to stick it in our ears. That was many posts ago).

 
#40
Geoff
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 6:53 PM EDT

Knight was a complex figure at IU… I think it’s perfectly normal that Chet and other fans have complex feelings about him. Almost every Hoosier fan I know on a personal level has expressed similar “I respected Knight as a basketball mind and thought he was a great coach, BUT…” opinions. It’s akin to feelings many people have about relatives who commit crimes – “he’s my brother and I’ll always love him, but I hate what he did and can’t believe he did it…”

 
#41
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 7:43 PM EDT

All coaches are complex figures.

 
#42
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 7:56 PM EDT

I’ll quit riding Crean’s Christian marketing..(and let’s please differentiate between privacy and stomping on someone’s humble belief system and what Crean was attempting to do on Twitter when he once thought he had the IU seal of approval/logo).

I respect your faith, Tsao. I don’t respect people that vilify others and use faith as a tool to act irreproachable. You are not being wholly honest with the misuse of faith. It has nothing to do with Christianity…it’s how he’s using Christianity as a vehicle at IU basketball.

There’s really no point anymore. I guess I’m in the minority. I use my tongue too much when I should silently smirk.

Thanks for trying to find some redeeming quality in Harvard. I respect all of your opinions and I apologize if you interpret my feelings about what I see as the inappropriate use of faith at a public institution as mocking your own religion or faith.

 
#43
Chet
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 7:59 PM EDT

Geoff, well put. I think anyone that expresses their feelings about RMK and his tenure at IU and doesn’t express some sort of “but” needs to re-examine themselves. If they only see positives and an absence negatives, then they have their own demons to absolve.

 
#44
GoodKidsOnly
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 8:14 PM EDT

That is about the 597th time Harvard has promised to stop his Christian-bashing. And we all know he’ll wait a few days and be right back at it. Like he always has.

In the past when he brought up “Crean’s talking about Jesus 24/7″, he was asked for proof. And offered zero. He then actually admitted it happened “long ago” and actually took credit for getting Crean to stop it.

Pretty funny.

So, I guess I’ve missed where Crean has gone back to the “Christian marketing” he keeps complaining about.

I wonder if Dustin would let Harvard be such a bigot towards blacks, gays or Jews. Why does Dustin think the Christian bigotry is ok by Harvard.

Pretty sad that an IU sports board is a vehicle to spread such hatred and bigotry towards Christians. And he can stop with the phony “I respect your beliefs” nonsense because Crean does not do what he claims.

Harvard just uses that as an excuse/smoke screen to spread his hate.

 
#45
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 8:25 PM EDT

That’s my Chet!!… Great exercise in transference!, your statement. I do see a whole lot of good in RMK; great integrity and a fierce capacity to defend his mission (college athletics and college athletes), a whole lot that can be easily seen just by watching and listening to those impacted by him, just as I do with you in the telling of stories about the great bunch of children you’ve raised and your absolute devotion to that mission.

And always was aware of what I saw as negatives in RMK. In striking the balance, I prefer to stay with the positives and generally go with those, until it is necessary to close the equation. Just as with all people in general and friends in particular. Even you Chet. So, I thank you for pointing out (in such an elegant, subtle manner) that I stay aware of my own demons when the imbalances in my equation require I do so. Sometime it is easy to fly up an attractive hill to find out just before finding out there’s a b-i-g drop-off just beyond the top. Too late to yell O-H-H S-H-H-___!! and find one’s self flying through the gravel shredding one’s own butt.

Just a way of sayin’, absolutely right Chet, we all live them…those concealed damned demons!!

 
#46 Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 9:37 PM EDT

GoodKidsOnly,
I’m not going to suggest that I’ve read every single word Harvard has written on here, because there are a lot that I skip over, but he has been, if nothing else, tirelessly consistent in his message, and frankly, his message is not at all anti-Christian or anti-God or anti-Jesus or anything else. What he’s said is that he believes Crean is using Indiana basketball as a vehicle for Christianity, that he is in effect trying to turn a public, secular institution into a religious one and that he strongly disagrees with that idea. He’s not rallying against Christianity, he’s rallying for a separation of church and state and he believes Crean is violating that principle as the basketball coach at a public institution by only recruiting players who are intensely Christian or who can easily be converted to Christianity.
And considering the language in the First Amendment in regards to the establishment of religion, he would certainly have grounds for an argument. If his thesis were actually true.
Harvard is a person who sees dots and presumes that they are connected. If he draws lines and they form an image, he presumes that image must be indicative of reality. When you try to explain to him that the dots don’t connect the way he thinks they do, or that there were certain dots he missed or ignored, he tells you that you’re missing the point or not seeing the image. That’s the case in this scenario. He has a presumption, for instance, that Remy Abell either was run off or believed he would be run off because Crean wanted a team that was somehow even more Christian than this one. That’s of course, patently ridiculous, because Abell is one of the most devout Christians on the team. And for as many times as I’ve made it clear to him that Indiana really did try to recruit Branden Dawson but Dawson was simply more interested in other schools, Harvard clings to the idea that it was bias against players from The Region.
But back to my point. I’m a Roman Catholic myself, born and raised, and I haven’t read anything from Harvard in that regard that I found offensive to my religion itself. I’m not even sure I’ve seen him say that Christianity is in and of itself wrong. I don’t think he thinks it is. He might not believe himself, but I don’t think he is insulting anyone else for believing. His concerns are, I believe, quite similar to the concerns of protestants before the 1960 election that John Kennedy would make the United States a Papist nation. Harvard’s concerns are, I think, similarly unfounded. Despite all of Crean’s religious bluster, I have no reason to believe Crean is actually trying to make his a Christian-only team and I think I would know if he was. But I don’t think he should be stopped from voicing his concerns.
That being said, Harvard, you’ve made your point. I see where you’re coming from, but your point is well short of half-baked, and you’re wrong on a lot of points as we’ve pointed out. We would all appreciate it if you at least took it down a notch.
Thanks all.

 
#47
Podunker
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 10:20 PM EDT

H4H wrote, “I respect your faith, Tsao. I don’t respect people that vilify others and use faith as a tool to act irreproachable. You are not being wholly honest with the misuse of faith. It has nothing to do with Christianity…it’s how he’s using Christianity as a vehicle at IU basketball.”

There is so much wrong with that paragraph, it’s unbelievable. First, “I respect your faith, Tsao.” No you don’t, that’s just a BS throw-away line. You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t respect Christianity, and unless I’ve misread, Tsao practices the same faith as Tom Crean. How can you respect Tsao’s faith and not Crean’s faith, given that they’re apparently the same faith.

“I don’t respect people that vilify others and use faith as a tool to act irreproachable.” Oh, that’s just priceless! Who does that, Harvard? Are you implying that Crean does that or did you direct that at Tsao? How ironic that the one person that spends more time and effort continuously “vilifying others” on this site does not respect those that he believes exhibit the same behavior. I guess it’s o.k. to “vilify others” as long as you don’t publicly identify yourself as a Christian!

“It has nothing to do with Christianity…it’s how he’s using Christianity as a vehicle at IU basketball.” Oh, so you know Tom Crean’s motives! You know what’s in his heart! It is the height of arrogance to suggest that somehow, above all others, you, in all your wisdom, can see into a person’s mind and heart, and therefore, you know Tom Crean’s motives. The implication is that Tom Crean is not sincere when he refers to his faith, but that he’s just using his Christianity “as a vehicle.” Wow, unbelievable. So, if he was behaving exactly the same way, but without referencing his Christian faith in any way, you’d be O.K. with Tom Crean? I doubt it. And there is another reason why that sentence is pure bullish!t. Tom Crean is not the only public figure that you have attacked for his expressions of his Christian faith. You’ve attacked Wilson when he’s referred to his faith or when he’s referred to a young man being from ‘a good Christian family.” Following that train-of-thought, therefore Wilson must also have the same “motives” as Crean. And there have been others that you’ve attacked on this site for expressing their Christian faith, so that is just blatantly transparent. Good liars have to have good memories, Harvard.

Here’s a thought. I’d rather Tom Crean be a flawed and imperfect Christian than a bigot. I don’t like bigots whether they be racial bigots, sexual bigots, or religious bigots. I refuse to tolerate it and I tend to defend people who are being attacked by bigots.

 
#48 Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 10:35 PM EDT

Congratulations, Dustin. You’ve posted a comment that is as long winded and dumb as He Whose Posts Smart People Scroll Past & Ignore. There is a reason that guy has been blacklisted many, many times at Peegs.

 
#49
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, May 5, 2013 - 10:43 PM EDT

Dustin-

You’re very eloquent.

I was raised a Methodist. My mom died clinging to the cross necklace on her chest. She wanted in all of her desperate last breaths in fighting the miserable last weeks of fighting three different forms of cancer to hold onto a belief she was going to a place where she would find her mother and her father and the Holy Spirit.

I think faith belongs in the heart and not marketed on Twitter pages as if you were selling Bounty paper towel.

If it were only the quoting of Joyce and the Bible on Twitter(as long as it’s without the IU logo), then I wouldn’t care all that much. But when I see all that holier-than-thou act(the telling an interviewer that “we pray before every game” and the constant tweeting of the Bible tucked repetitively between news and comments on IU players)with the vilification of coaches not directly involved with sanctions and the continual over-signing of recruits and the cold brush they seem to be getting from fans when they leave….? It all sorta turns my stomach.

Remy? You’re way off on that one. I don’t believe I’ve ever said he wasn’t “Christian enough” for IU. If anything, he may have also not believed in the way it was being used.

I always saw faith as somewhat of an act of discipline. I see a lot of contradictions on our team where cockiness and gloating aren’t controlled. I see instances of bad sportsmanship and turmoil between players…I see faith being used as the scapegoat for other areas character lacks ad should otherwise fall gracefully into place.

Anyway, I don’t think the “dots” are ever fully connected. How many dots do all attempt to connect when they’re discussing very divisive issues? I saw a lot drawing of major inferences on the thread that went down the bigotry accusation road. Was Harvard involved in that thread? Chet doesn’t label every Kentucky person as an ignorant slob? Clarion doesn’t take hard stances on his side of the political fence?

I appreciate the leeway you’ve allowed, but let’s not pretend that Geoff, Tsao, Clarion, Chet don’t take very long leaps between their dots as well.

It’s not popular to talk critically of a coach that appears to be bringing back the winning ways to our basketball program..Hate to continually bring up the Penn State thing, but you can’t deny that there are many levels of wrong swept under rugs when the dollars and the victories are rolling in.

 
#50
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:00 AM EDT

Any news on what happened with the kid that decommitted from UCLA..? Freeman?

I’m still holding onto faith(much the same faith I had when I first saw Remy) that we’re going to land that kid. Yogi may be begging for playing time with a Robinson and Freeman duo in our backcourt.

Alford at UCLA…I keep saying it to myself, but the brain is kicking back a “does not compute.” Remember how the ‘dot connectors’ proclaimed for years that the Mountain West was the perfect irrelevant fit for his proven mediocrity? Yup, connect the dots. The Pac 12 is perfectly mediocre as well. Bruins, Trojans, Huskies, Cardinals….Wooden…Walton..Romar…Carroll…Alford. Dots connected.

 
#51 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:01 AM EDT

Harvard,
I can’t deny that, and you’re right that it’s not popular to be critical of a winning coach. But you have to understand that it’s significantly less popular because you’re attaching your criticism to a theory — and you are doing nothing but theorizing, you’re describing with intense detail your imagination of the underside of a rug that you couldn’t even find to actually look under — that’s largely baseless.
I see some of the same dots that you see. But you also see some dots that aren’t there and there are other dots that you’re not seeing. For instance, you’ve invented in your head most of the turmoil between players. The whole idea that there was some sort of battle for attention between Zeller and Oladipo, and that Oladipo’s rise in profile fractured team chemistry couldn’t have been more off. I’ve covered these guys very closely for four years. Character was not one of their shortcomings.
As for Crean, I’m not telling you you have to like the man or believe that he’s a good coach. And you’re just as within your rights to be irritated at his religious nature as others are to celebrate it, which by the way they very much are. What I ask from you now is to accept that you’ve made your point, and you’re not going to gain any more converts to your position than you have. I’ve heard your arguments, and if I find out that Crean has officially turned the Indiana basketball program into the Bloomington Chapter of the Church of Joyce Meyer, I’ll let you know. Until and unless that happens, please take it easier, man and just come off it a little.

 
#52 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:16 AM EDT

Podunker-

Dots not very nice.

 
#53 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:25 AM EDT

Dustin-

Never forget. Remy is Harvard’s forever. Also don’t forget that Tsao “dots” would have lived forever if I wouldn’t have been perceptive enough to something else going on at that Northwestern postgame press conference. Guess that I was also imagining the “smirk dots” that were almost eternally swept under the rug.

What type of accusations toward Crean’s treatment of you were being thrown around the blog on that day…(dot, dot, dot)?

 
#54 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:37 AM EDT

Oops.(dot)com:

…were being thrown around the blog on [dot] day?

Shall we revisit dot thread to show how some were crucifying our coach when Harvard identified something else going on in the room? Maybe a reporter not showing our coach a dot of respect? Trying to get under his skin because he likes to dodge every question from dot reporter? And if I misread so much into the interplay, how on earth would I know dot Establishment smirk was going down? I must have eyes dot can move from comment box to eyes of fly on dot wall in dot stinky room.

 
#55
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 1:11 AM EDT

#13
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, January 21, 2013 – 3:54 PM UTC

Dustin-

Where did your post go…? Did I just not read a post explaining the reason Crean got snippy with you? Something about a “smirk” on your face that bothered him?

Maybe I’m going wacko, but I thought it was a page long explanation…and then it just vanished from the thread.

#14
Dustin Dopirak
Monday, January 21, 2013 – 4:00 PM UTC

You did, Harvard. I decided I’d provided too much detail with the first one and I deleted it. There’s now a shorter one on the Hoosier Morning thread.

dot dot dot

 
#56
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 1:22 AM EDT

TsaoTsuG
Sunday, January 20, 2013 – 10:00 PM UTC

Dustin, completely uncalled for that Creans responds to your questions as he does. To single you out is a transparent attempt to intimidate you; thus unprofessional and arrogant. And, that’s the worse characterization one can make of his responsibilities, that he is handling them in an unprofessional manner based on personal vulnerabilities.

I hope AD Glass (or one of his aides) in the AD Information Office takes note of this. The unprofessional behavior by an Indiana University coach attempting to intimidate and ridicule a member of the press into silence does not represent the education we received at IU and ought should not be tolerated, particularly by those Crean answers to.

Mr. Glass, please take the necessary action to correct this lamentable behavior. It is your responsibility. I apologize to Mr. Dopirak, in the name of IU alumni, for this embarrassing episode.

Crean, you should always answer legitimate queries from the press with respect and due professionalism.

dot dot dot

 
#57
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 2:34 AM EDT

DD and Harvard, On Church and State and Tommie Crean:

Here’s my point. The concept of the Separation of Church and State and the Constitution’s Establishment clause have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of Tom Crean’s tweeting whatever he wants to personally tweet on accounts (though I suspect Indiana University may have a contractual say on the matter, at least into what it pays for to Twitter Inc). (I believe Crean, to his credit, decided- on his own- to circumvent it becoming an issue by dropping his identification with IU; given your (both) obsession with it, a wise choice.

But, you miss the point entirely. Sort of like a big, BIG …’A-I-R B-A-L-L!!’). To prohibit CTC’s religious freedom to Tweet his conscience would violate not only the Constitution just as he would if CTC wanted to Tweet pro-atheist comments or suggesting his recruits pray to the Great Lollipop under either the Establishment or Separation prohibitions. It would likely also violate another fundamental Right he has (even though we got knocked off in the Sweet Sixteen two years in a row); CTC’s Constitutional Right to Free Speech under the same First Amendment of The Bill of Rights (the first ten fellows).

That’s the point of the Constitution, it tells you what Rights WE have, not which we don’t have. It tells government (and CTC is not government even if he had us ranked number one for several weeks) what IT can’t do in its relationship with the individual.

The Supreme Court has, more than once, stated that the “metaphor (‘separation of church and state’) itself is not a wholly accurate description of the practical aspects of the relationship that in fact exists between church and state.” One Justice (Scalia for you liberal fans)has written that the phrase would actually beused as a ‘bulldozer against religious freedom’ in the manner you both describe.

In other words, just because you moved your head and made it lookd as if you moved the pivot foot doesn’t make it a travel.

The Rehnquist Court, in fact, even upheld the use of federal funds to transport children to church (various denominations) related schools using federal tax dollars. (A practice which, by the way, is used in Chicago to help kids attend parochial and other non-public, church (or temple, or mosque) linked schools (it is good for the society that they attend school) besides public schools.

So…let’s drop this magnificent case being built exactly backwards about Crean’s freedoms to Tweet for God. As I understand it, DD and Harvard, several justices, including Justice Scalia, Judge Rehnquist, Justice Sotomayor, Justice Ginsberg and others have agreed- If you two refrain from commenting babble on the modification of the Establisment of Religion, Separation of Church and State and Free Speech amendments, they won’t issue Supreme Court Opinions or Scoop analysis on Tom Crean’s basketball coaching, especially against the zone.

Both of you write pretty damned well. It’s reading comprehension that’s giving you problems. May I suggest that you read the Federalist Papers by Coaches Hamilton (Alex like in ARod), Jefferson (Tommie)or, as we know him in the ‘hood, TJ; and Madison (Jimbo)(yes, that Jimbo Madison DD), especially the part where TJ strongly shows his preference for allowing the relationship between the individual and his/her God to remain one strictly a matter of conscience between the two without the interference- in any form, pro or against- into it from government…or Hoosier Scoop.

(It’s OK guys…after four-five weeks, I tend to forget the embarrassing stuff some people write. I’m old and easily forget. Just yanking your leg, well sort of, DD).

 
#58
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 2:56 AM EDT

Harvard- other than my yanking your chain on THE CONSTITUTIONAL issue, I do appreciate your attempting to soften the blows but no need. At best a mosquito bite and (as is probably obvious from my comment before I read your last post and appreciated gesture) not at all needed.

Truth be told, the Constitution is sort of like basketball (or football or soccer…), every media member of fan considers himself/herself an expert. Time teaches most reporters that it is best to read and listen and comment as little as possible (until after retirement).

I’e got no argument with what you are saying, just don’t think the Bill of Rights fits it. And I’m not much bothered by the Tweets because I don’t Tweet nor read them. How can anyone express whole thought in 140 characters (including spaces). I rether read long, well written pieces and argumentts (even the redundant ones) than bare grunts like “thinking of you today…” between a 40-something plus an a 17 y.o. boy. If only he could have, Abraham Lincoln could have twitted in his Gettysburg address, (wasting 34 characters in the salutation and leaving him just enough room to say ‘we made one hell of a mess for all these folks’ and adding one more line.)

So, not to worry Harvard. I appreciate the thought just the same and will do my best to help DD understand I’m too dumb to be intimidated.

 
#59 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 3:52 AM EDT

Tsao,
I think I need to clarify my point a little bit. I’m not at all suggesting that what Crean says on Twitter constitutes a violation of the First Amendment. He’s still a private citizen and he has the right to express himself and his religious beliefs. Harvard’s theory is that it obviously goes much deeper than that. Twitter is merely the window through which many see how devout Crean is. It is, to use my metaphor, the first big dot for Harvard, but not illegal in and of itself. Harvard’s effectively suggested that Crean uses religion as a litmus test in recruiting in hopes of building an all-Christian team. There’s more nuance to it than that (there’s the whole Establishment thing, but let’s not even go there) I’m not trying to argue what the Supreme Court would or would not say, but Harvard obviously believes in a separation of church and state and has a philosophical problem with the idea of the coach at a public institution using devotion to Christianity as part of the criterion for playing on his basketball team.
But again, from what I can tell, that’s not what’s happening. Crean has had Muslims on his team (Tijan Jobe) and I don’t think he’d stop recruiting Theo Pinson if he found out he was an atheist (he isn’t, but you get my point.) I wasn’t trying to adopt Harvard’s argument. I was just trying to put it in perspective and explain why I have not deleted his posts/banned him because I do not believe his posts constitute anti-Christian bigotry.

 
#60
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 6:45 AM EDT

Put “We pray before every game” on a Hoosier billboard on Highway 37.

I only wish the reporter would have replied, “With your coaching, they need to pray.”

 
#61
Hoosier Clarion
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 8:12 AM EDT

H4H, for your information only. I attended a multitude of gatherings over the years where RMK spoke. At the end of near every 1 he had a closing statement he made proudly and pointedly. “America, America God shed his grace on thee”.

Chet, I am glad to be fighting demons in your eyes.

DD, #46 is a laffer along with many other adjectives.

 
#62
Geoff
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:09 AM EDT

I wanted to reflect a bit on this before I gave my opinion…

Initially I felt that Dustin’s post was a spot-on representation of the Harvard Situation. I still think the facts are basically correct, and certainly Dustin is qualified (as a Christian) to have an opinion on whether or not its offensive – Dustin is not offended.

However, I started subsitituting in other protected classes of people into the rants that Harvard goes on and I began to see it as slightly less harmless, and understood the offense that many Christians take to it. Now I know, I know… Christians make up the majority of America (or at least people that identify as Christian) so it isn’t quite the same… But if Harvard were taking the same liberties to criticize Crean for using his positions and celebrity to promote the Jewish faith, or constantly bang on Crean for using his Twitter account to promote Black History, well then we would have a much more unified front against him. Right now most of the criticism against Harvard is that his act is tired, and the smaller group is saying they are offended, but I think if Harvard was hating on Crean for famously supporting GLBT rights there would be a lot more deeply offended people. I know I would take offense.

So I think its fair to criticize Christianity for some of its positions that go against liberty and freedom (foundational American ideals). I think it’s fair to point out the evils that have been done in the name of religion (not just Christianity). I think its fair to criticize Crean for blurring the lines between church and state…

But I think Harvard has taken it to an offensive level with the relentless nature, and refusal to be balanced n the topic.

 
#63 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:30 AM EDT

“Laffer” is a noun, Clarion.

 
#64 Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:32 AM EDT

Actually, I take that back. It’s not a word. It’s an impersonation of a noun. One way or another, your opinion means as much to me as mine does to you.

 
#65
Ben
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 12:21 PM EDT

Give me a break Geoff. Blurring the lines? So what, we put a gag order on Crean? Let the man practice his faith!!!!!!

 
#66
Geoff
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 3:33 PM EDT

Ben, THAT is what you took from what I wrote?!

Listen, I am all for letting Crean practice his faith. I don’t care that he uses an IU logo (or whatever Harvard is bitching about) on his Twitter account while he quotes Joyce Meyers… I don’t care if he recruits only Christians, as long as they are top notch players and can help bring us championships.

I also think its fair to criticize a public figure for how they go about their business. It doesn’t mean I agree with some, or all, of the criticism. I just think it’s Harvard’s right to do so, and in this particular instance I think some of his points are fair.

However, I think that Harvard has done it to excess and it’s now crossed over from criticism to offensive.

Maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you’re being so defensive about this that you can’t see I’m on your side.

 
#67
Toe Jam & Earl
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 3:56 PM EDT

It’s very ironic that Crean’s 2 biggest critics on this blog (or shall I say 1.5 biggest critics), Harvard and Rico, follow him relentlessly on Twitter. I mean, they hate the coach so much that they take the time to check Twitter every day, maybe even follow him, to see what he says. That’s just plain strange, if you ask me. Deranged might be the better word.

I’m proud to say that I’ve never once checked the coach’s Twitter page – or anyone’s, for that matter. Out of all the social media sites, Twitter is the one which most supports a completely delusional idea of one’s own self-importance. Even worse than people who Tweet are the sycophants who eagerly await to listent to what they have to say.

 
#68
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 4:23 PM EDT

So… to sum it up, DD gives his best 10,000 word lecture in support of Harvard while thoroughly demeaning him by telling him he will only slice him up into finely crafted prosciutto. Harvard, in his dot connecting, doesn’t attack Christianity, just some Christians…but hey, it’s Harvard; either enjoy him (as I do) or don’t read him. Whether you meant to or not, what you do is demean him. Do you have to take time out to parade him Carny style. Please, some dignity Mr. DD!

And dictionary (the thick book)… Laffer- (probably slang but accepted as a corruption of ‘laugher’ adjective…meaning goofy, ridiculous, absurd and and about another 20 synonyms. HC used it correctly.

And, ‘Goofy Geoose’ still doesn’t understand anything about anything about anything (least of all how to respect those he wants to play with but continues to use them to throw crap balls at) but wants us to follow his logic (???) (that’s what it is huhh?!)while not understanding anything but seeking and applying for the ‘Maximus Major Celestially Illuminated Being” gig to lead us underprivileged, unwashed Hoosiers anyway). If he represents Indiana I wanna surrender.

Good observation Ben… as RMK sad, “America….God shed His Grace on Thee (Thanks HC).”

 
#69
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 4:32 PM EDT

Podunker, I don’t take offense at Harvad’s comments. We (he and I) disagree and, at times, almost comically so but I appreciate his sincerity, intensity and his deep love for things Hoosier (and accept sometimes I have to read a bit deeper into his musings).

Still, a nod of appreciation for your comment. We do fine, us Hoosiers, when we stand solid for who we really are.

 
#70
Geoff
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 4:43 PM EDT

It’s about time you surrendered Tsao… Can’t wait for the day you make one argument against anything I’ve ever said that makes a shred of sense. I knew you couldn’t resist ignoring me in your posts forever. Thanks for the shout out!

 
#71
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 4:57 PM EDT

Notice the subtlety in #66 Ben. From deep in the shadow…Ninja style…: “Ben, THAT is what you took from what I wrote?!” leaving out the suggested “You ignorant dumb__”.

Now move down to graphs #2, #3 and #4 referencing his ‘support’ of Crean (HfH: “I don’t care that he (Crean) uses an IU logo (or whatever Harvard is bitching about) on his Twitter account while he quotes Joyce Meyers… I don’t care if he (Crean) recruits only Christians,…”(as he again draws attention to Harvard and claims to somewhat agree with him…

Until the dagger is prepared, “However, I think that Harvard has done it to excess and it’s now crossed over from criticism to offensive.”

And preparing you- Ben- for your Ides of March moment…”Maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you’re being so defensive about this that you can’t see I’m on your side.”

Oh, ohh…!

Arrrrggggghhh! (drip…, drip…)

(You can’t get better Telemundo/Univision soap operas than this.)

 
#72
Geoff
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 5:44 PM EDT

Actually it was surprise, Tsao, not condescension…

That’s what I love about you. You always take things out of context and then make silly comments.

 
#73
Geoff
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 5:56 PM EDT

(^^That’s condescension). I was having an honest dialogue with Ben.

 
#74
Ron
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 6:26 PM EDT

Indy Star. Naked guy preaching in Church parking lot arrested. Guess we can rule out HH.

 
#75
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 6:37 PM EDT

Dustin-

They’re jealous ’cause they ain’t got your skills. The point of view or your agreement/disagreement with Harvard is irrelevant.

You can go toe-to-toe and they don’t like it(especially coming from an Establishment mothership guy that’s not of IU or Indiana roots).

Be subservient..Spoon feed them their Pollyanna diet in the style of ITH and they’ll be just fine. Your crossing the line and bucking their safe and protected world.

I appreciate your eloquence in attempting to bring your balanced point of view into the house of my rants. You displayed more than I could summon..You displayed the arguments with experience and professionalism at the dead center their pedestrian core.

You packaged it and dialed Harvard down…and that ain’t popular with the natives. Be very careful.

 
#76
Harvard for Hillbillies
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 6:41 PM EDT

[You're] crossing the line…

 
#77
Podunker
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 7:39 PM EDT

Tsao, you may be right about Harvard’s “sincerity, intensity and his deep love for things Hoosier,” but its hard for some of us to see that through his continuous expression of religious bigotry.

 
#78
Chet
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 9:34 PM EDT

You must have missed the honest-to-goodness bigotry on display here recently. It was impressive in it’s distastefulness.

 
#79
Ben
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:06 PM EDT

It’s all good Geoff. Just need to step away.

 
#80
TsaoTsuG
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:40 PM EDT

Podunker, I just shake it off and remember that (if I’m right), He made Hoosiers. And then, He created HfH as a reminder to us lesser creatures of human imperfection.

 
#81
Hoosier Clarion
Monday, May 6, 2013 - 10:59 PM EDT

Correction accepted.

Not sure I like distastefulness as well as detestable but who’s keeping score.

 
#82
Podunker
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 11:55 AM EDT

Chet, yes I missed it and I’m glad I did.

Tsao, well said.

 
#83
Harvard for Hillbillies
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 1:04 PM EDT

It’s not complicated, Podunker.

Dustin summarized it quite well in post #46:

I’m not going to suggest that I’ve read every single word Harvard has written on here, because there are a lot that I skip over, but he has been, if nothing else, tirelessly consistent in his message, and frankly, his message is not at all anti-Christian or anti-God or anti-Jesus or anything else. What he’s said is that he believes Crean is using Indiana basketball as a vehicle for Christianity, that he is in effect trying to turn a public, secular institution into a religious one and that he strongly disagrees with that idea. He’s not rallying against Christianity, he’s rallying for a separation of church and state and he believes Crean is violating that principle as the basketball coach at a public institution by only recruiting players who are intensely Christian or who can easily be converted to Christianity.

What on earth can you not understand about those highlighted segments?

I think it’s far more bigoted and intolerant for a coach/administrator/member of an admissions board/athletic director/university president to use a position at a public university(a university that recruits and offers academic scholarships to students from all over the world and of many positions of faith)as a vehicle outside of the qualifications and requirements of the job you were hired to do as a platform/podium to sell and promote a singular and personal stance on religion.

We did not hire Tom Crean to sell Jesus. I’m pretty sure we hired him to take our basketball program back to a level of pride and, hopefully, championships. I’m not proud of Indiana Basketball when it continues to allow a coach to constantly infer Christianity and Jesus are supreme. I think it’s a complete and unnecessary function of his job. And when any coach phrases or insinuates that a recruit is someone of great redeemable character because he or she is from “good Christian families,” I think it moves outside the bounds of truth. Why should the adjective ‘good’ be tied to Christians? Are there no evil Christians? Are there good Muslims and evil Muslims? Were American Indians evil because they believed in reincarnation? Did that justify there slaughter? Were there no good American Indians because they were not Christian?

Label me with as much sh*t you want to throw. I really don’t care. Your opinion will not move my stance from what I feel is an improper use of faith.

And put it in the context of a coach attempting to rebuild a program. Put it in the context of Hoosier’s Rising…Put it in the context of lumping all that played for Sampson as villains when you scream of 19F’s…Put it in the context of constant comments on a Twitter page that used to have the IU logo as if his opinions on Christianity and Jesus were endorsed by our universtity…Put it in the context of telling a reporter after a highly watched March Madness game that the team is united because they “pray (collectively) before every game”….Put it in the context of chasing down another villain, Jeff Meyer, after the Michigan game and claiming that he, Jeff Meyer, “wrecked” the program. Jeff Meyer wrecked the program?

Tom Crean is reckless. He’s reckless with labels. He’s reckless with using faith as the tongue to vilify others. He cleans himself in the river of that slime when he sells Jesus within the context of all that vilification. In my opinion it’s sick, it’s bigotry wrapped into manipulation and deceptions to place all of Indiana, all of our institution, into the realm of agreement his personal beliefs and his personal targets.

Here’s an idea…Quit telling the world how much others wreck it. Quit telling the world that we pray while others wreck it. Quit telling the world what a great basketball coach Bob Knight was. Quit attempting to package yourself constantly. Maybe try focusing on what you were hired to accomplish. Maybe figure out how to pick apart a Syracuse zone instead of picking apart the imperfect people that must not be perfectly “good” Christians like the rest of us Hoosiers?

 
#84
Harvard for Hillbillies
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 1:25 PM EDT

Did that justify [their] slaughter?

If Jesus can forgive us for our sins if we accept him as our Lord and Savior, then why on earth can’t Tom Crean forgive Jeff Meyer for working under a guy that broke some phone calling recruiting rules? Is it forever too late for Jeff Meyer or Jeff Meyer’s children to become “good” Christians. Are they villains for life and damned forever to hell? Have we proven the “bad” Christians of the Big 10 hang out at Michigan?

This isn’t even a man that just quietly holds his faith in his heart. This is a man that never stops seeking villains while constantly proclaiming himself as a model of perfection and Jesus’s biggest tweeting cheerleader. He can’t even handle a Dustin smirk. Dustin- Are you a ‘good’ Christian reporter from a ‘good’ Christian family?

 
#85
Husky Tom
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 6:11 PM EDT

Tom Crean ‏@TomCrean 6 May

It is hard to believe he (Austin “Jesús” Etherington) is our 2nd oldest guy on the team going forward. Wow! We are going to be VERY YOUNG!

And it’s back to excuse #1.

 
#86
TsaoTsuG
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 7:52 PM EDT

Whoaaa!…see, just what I thought, the problem is not so much the writing but the reading comprehension.

HfH quotes DD’s ‘summary conclusion, “…[Harvard's] message that is not at all anti-Christian or anti-God or anti-Jesus or anything else. What he’s said is that he believes Crean is using Indiana basketball as a vehicle for Christianity..”

Don’t think so, I draw another, just as likely conclusion than DD’s interpretation of Harvard’s postulation. I think that what has Harvard so obsessed is his belief that Crean is not using Indiana basketball as a vehicle for Christianity (has anyone advancing this non-sense of an argument thought about which version of Christianity since it is definitely not a homogenous religion, movement or philosophy?)- which would be no more harmful than promoting ‘green living’ or, for that matter, a less ostentatious more communal life style or Daffy Duck; none of which would particularly bother HfH (or DD for that matter). I believe that the spur in Harvard’s railing and sending out serial mating calls is that he believes Crean is cynically linking Indiana basketball to Christianity for his own purposes and benefit. That simple…and it makes for great theater that obviously sells tickets.

Really, at the End of Days, just win! and do it the right way (It’s Indiana!).

What do I know? Nothing. Not that it matters one damned bit. When, for whatever reason, Crean’s testimony (whenever and wherever) have a basis in his own personal experiences and relationship to our Maker. It is who he is. So he tells you,…, his Right. Whether Harvard, DD (or me for that matter) agrees with him is completely irrelevant. And, here in America, Crean has the Right (as in First amendment) to say so, hold the Torah, count beads, even wear a Batman outfit as he addresses ESPM cameras if he wants to while a Rabbi stands next to him wearing a crimson yamulke. Ain’t this a Great Country??!!

If Crean’s suggestion were to be in front of the Indiana logo to promote ‘green living’, a more communal lifestyle philosophy or Daffy Duck, I doubt it would bother anyone much. The spur in some saddles is some seem convinced that TC is insincere and riding this posture horse to promote Tom Crean. If that’s the case, then say so but don’t blame it on Christianity (by the way, which branch?)

When’s football??

 
#87
Harvard for Hillbillies
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 8:44 PM EDT

Tom Crean is promoting ‘green’ living.

Throughout the long, proud, hugely abundant, storied history of Indiana basketball, we have never had a coach quite as ‘green’ in befuddlement than when Tom “Green” Crean stares at jerseys on the dead remnants, the planks of what was once a living and breathing core, of a majestic ‘green’ maple tree. When it comes to maple, it don’t get any ‘greener.’ Of course, he did come by way of MSU green. Izzo is very, very green. One championship banner in six Final Four appearances…? One could argue that MSU attracts a lot of green. Dane Fife…? Almost wrecks(I think that’s a Tom Crean green verb)a Hoosier red trip to Final Four by committing a last-second foul on a 3-point shooter when the Hoosier are up by four..? I digress..Let’s get back to ‘green living’ Crean.

Oh, how I long for a coach that could honor the death of that tree synonymous with basketball by teaching the intricacies of the game to those that tread upon her once living core something valuable outside of a dazed ‘green’ look upon her maple flesh; maple that might as well be grown from a ‘green’ money tree chopped down by a ‘green’ clueless lumberjack. Go Green! Go McCracken Green! Go Steve Green! Go Crean Green!

 
#88
Hoosier Clarion
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 8:56 PM EDT

No excuse they are going to be very young next season.

 
#89
Chet
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 9:25 PM EDT

Harvard, are you trying to say that you hate Tom Crean? Your subtlety sometimes obscures your message. Perhaps something more overt. A burning cross or perhaps a tactical nuclear weapon.

Do you have anything else to offer?

Is that all there is anymore?

 
#90
Harvard for Hillbillies
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 9:27 PM EDT

And let’s not forget…Our ‘Master of Green’ turned what could have been vast ‘Big Red’ POY potential and ‘Big Red’ banners into a Green money tree for the Green NBA(No Basketball Acumen). No post player development by way of Mr. ‘Go Green’ Crean!…Because it’s Indiana and ‘Red’ is only a 2-year transitional color for a post player that came to Indiana when “everything hinged” on camouflaging the green X’s and O’s coach. No worries…He’ll soon be taken to school by Draymond Green and learn to play the individual ‘Green’ game. Cody will pick up Green’s skills around the basket and learn enough and earn enough ‘green’ to make us forever proud his two years of green moves while he wore Hoosier red. Are you still following along, green TTGreen?

Hoosier maple now green on top…..with preachy rednecks. Pluck the green apple and throw it at the demon pretending green is good. Hoosier red blood no longer flow through maple to brain. Any questions?

 
#91
Harvard for Hillbillies
Tuesday, May 7, 2013 - 9:38 PM EDT

Not at all, Chet…

I don’t “hate” the green. I just passionately dislike painting something once naturally vibrant and collectively bright in Red with thick layers of piety and individualistic Green.

In Indiana, the dried green hay belonged in the barn. You’d give it to the talking horse. The basketball hoop was traditionally attached to the red wall outside….maybe benefiting from the afternoon shade a nearby majestic old maple.

 
#92
Rico Chet
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 11:59 AM EDT

^ Talking horses like Horselips Chet! Nahhhhhhh!

 
#93
Ron
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 12:12 PM EDT

OK Dustin/Jeremy/HT. Why in the f would you allow
garbage such as Ricoshit to post on this family newspaper site ??

Any part of his comment(s) of any use?

Can somewhat understand the stance you have taken for religion/politics/etc…But what value are the personal attacks?

Either the HT does not care or the staff is too lazy to follow through? Which is it?

 
#94
GoodKidsOnly
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 12:40 PM EDT

Says the kkklown who used vulgar language in his post…..

 
#95
Ron
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 - 12:46 PM EDT

Yep that was me. Guessing you can say anything here.

Maybe only if the insult is directed to someone specific.

 


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