Live Chat Transcript

42 comments by   |   Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 5:44 pm EDT

QUESTION: Good afternoon, and welcome to today’s IU sports chat. Thanks for joining us a little bit later than usual.

Gentlemen, How are you today? Lots of IU sports news this week so let’s get started.

JEREMY: Despite this late start throwing off my Thursday bio-rhythm, I’m ready to chat.

DUSTIN: Doing well. Just got out of some IU football availability and taking this in while watching Pirates-Cardinals. Good stuff. Let’s get to it.

ANDY: Goodness gracious, it feels like football weather out there.

Downright invigorating.

Ready to chat.

QUESTION: 1. Can Crean please give up on taking verbal commits from 8th graders?

Nothing good every comes of it and either you have an awkward situation where a kid is not as good as you think and you have to pull the scholarship offer or they are really good and scouts get in their ear that they have committed to early and need to look again and De-commit. No eighth grade commitment has ever stuck as far as I know and it just makes it so you cant take commits from older kids at that particular position.

I don t’ fault the kids at all and Crean needs to learn from this and make no more scholarship offers until sophomore year of high school period. I hope he’s learned from our recent DE-commitments, about scholarship offers in middle school.

2. Very happy to see IU set a school attendance record and basically sold out every home game!

3. Was shocked that IU was preseason no. 1 in soccer after losing Zavaletta and our 4 yr starting goalie. I am not as up on IU soccer and wondered if this ranking seemed a little high in your guy’s mind?

Darren, Martinsville

JEREMY: Darren,

First, I don’t think IU has ever taken a commitment from an eighth-grader. Now granted, Blackmon and Lyles had not yet played a high school game as freshmen when they committed. I don’t completely disagree with you about offering so young, but unless the NCAA changes the rules, it’s going to happen — and ensuing decommitments will occur.

But IU is in a completely different place now, where it shouldn’t have to make college offers to those that young very often. On occasion, you identify a clear talent and make them a priority with an offer, but those should certainly be the exception rather than the rule.

2. Good for IU, but does this mark the start of discussion regarding a newer, bigger basketball venue? Just thinking out loud.

3. Not at all surprised by the No. 1 ranking. Generally, when you win a national title, you’re going to be at the top or close to it. And despite losing three key guys in Zavaleta, Konstanski and Soffner, Indiana returns eight starters and four other guys who saw playing time in the NCAA title game, plus several talented newcomers, including Louisville transfer Dylan Marres. If you were going to rank anybody else No. 1, it could be Maryland, which is No. 2 and lost in the College Cup semifinals to Georgetown last year. The Hoyas, by the way, are No. 3. I suppose it’s worth noting that other teams IU beat in last year’s tourney run are UNC at No. 4, Creighton at No. 6 and Notre Dame at No. 7.

DUSTIN: Darren,

1. Let’s first point out some facts. IU didn’t take any commitments from eighth-graders. It took two commitments from ninth graders in 2010. At that point, Indiana was just building recruiting momentum and didn’t have a commitment from Cody Zeller yet. They were in a position where they pretty much needed to take anyone who would’ve committed to them. They’d won a total of 16 games over the previous two years. They weren’t in a position to tell Trey Lyles and James Blackmon Jr. � two players they correctly identified as future stars � that they couldn’t take their commitments. They took those commitments in the late summer and early fall of 2010. Later that fall, they took commitments from Devin Davis and Collin Hartman, who were high school sophomores at the time, both of whom ended up enrolling. Since then, Indiana has not taken a commitment from a player who was younger than a junior at the time. So it’s been three years and the program has totally changed profiles since, and the strategy has therefore changed. Obviously, Crean is still offering early, but no one’s committed, so there’s something to be said for the adaptation there. The only reason it looks bad now is a three-year old commitment just un-did itself.

Two things here, though. No. 1, part of the reason you offer in-state players early is because you see them before anyone else. That’s your benefit of being the in-state school. You want them to know you care about them before anyone else does, and the competition gets a lot tougher going into their junior year when everyone else finds out about them. You sort of hope they don’t commit to you early and just keep you in mind, but if they do, you’re kind of in a position where you have to take them or else the offer wasn’t real and that causes all kinds of issues. It’s kind of a rock and hard place situation. Also, with Lyles and Blackmon, there’s a bit of a “better to have loved and lost” question. Is Indiana really worse off having Lyles and Blackmon de-commit than never having had them at all? Is there any reason to believe they would have still committed to IU if they would have not offered until they were sophomores. Especially with Lyles, I think having those players committed for the future helped them recruit the 2012 and 2013 classes. Pardon the expression, but that’s what Ron Patterson meant when he called it “The Movement.” There was a feeling going around that it was cool to go to Indiana again, and those guys were a part of it whether they enrolled at IU or not. I’m not sure it’s something they’ll do in the future, but I’m not sure it’s something they regret either in this case.

3. ( 2 was not a question). I’m a little surprised to see the ranking considering the losses, but sir Price and Graham know more about this than I do, so I’ll trust their judgment.

ANDY: Darren:

1. I think CTC, early in his IU tenure, had to cast very early and very wide nets regarding recruiting. It was basically a necessity. The situation was, after all, pretty desperate. Now the situation has altered a bit and I would imagine he’ll moderate his approach somewhat. And there is a fine line. You do want to get in on kids early, want to let them know you feel they’re going to develop into special players, and that (in the case of guys such as Lyles and Blackmon) that their home-state school wants them. But, as you note, taking verbals before they’ve played a minute of high school ball is probably a bit extreme.

2. For most of the elite programs, build it and they will come. Just on student-ticket demand alone, IU could probably pretty easily pack places the size of Rupp and the Dean Dome.

3. Good question. Is the ranking based primarily on last year’s result or on the actual strength of this year’s team on paper? Actually, I think it’s probably a little of both. There are a lot of key returnees and a good freshman class coming in. If Indiana isn’t the best team in the country, it’s got to probably at least be in the top five, and I think there is kind of a notion out there that the champs gets the No. 1 ranking until somebody knocks them off.

QUESTION: Good afternoon guys. I hope all is well. As always, thanks for your hard work and continued excellent coverage. It’s been a bit chilly for August mornings for my liking but it does feel like football so we must be close!

 

1. I watched the Big Ten Network’s “camp tour” preview this past week and found at least a couple of interesting things. First, Howard Griffith was asked about under-the-radar players who would surprise and he mentioned Laray Smith. He said of Smith, “the fastest guy on the team and the coaches will find a way to use him”. Have you heard any buzz about this freshman from New York and what should we expect from him this season and in the future? Griffith also said Clyde Newton would end up starting at LB this season? Do you see that happening?

 

2. Which injuries are of the most concern for the Hoosiers thus far in camp?

3. With the decommitment of James Blackmon Jr. (bummer, I love his game), I think Robert Johnson will be committing sometime soon. I think Johnson would be a good addition (he led the Peach Jam in scoring and I think he can be a really good player). Anything buzz or noteworthy you are hearing post-AAU season?

Two weeks to go until kick-off. Enjoy the last couple of weeks of offseason, enjoy this mild weather, God bless and go Hoosiers!

TJ, Noblesville

JEREMY: TJ,

1 and 2 — football fellas.

3. Robert Johnson is certainly a strong possibility, particularly if he has a good visit coming up later this month. I watched half of one of his AAU games online recently, and he is a very similar player to Blackmon and runs the point for his Boo Williams AAU squad. I would think North Carolina to be the biggest challenger for his services. Other than that, IU making a lot of lists for recruits, but who actually winds up in Bloomington is anybody’s guess.

DUSTIN: Hey TJ,

Wilson did say (and we had in the Scoop) that Smith is the fastest guy who walks in the building, and we’ve seen that in practice for sure. Wilson says sometimes he doesn’t know what direction he’s running and he sometimes has trouble holding on to the ball right now, but he’s lightning fast and he’s a playmaker. He’s obviously not going to be your starting tailback because Tevin Coleman and Stephen Houston are much more physically developed and D’Angelo Roberts has experience, but Smith is an electric playmaker and they’ll find ways to get the ball in his hands. You might see him as one of the returners and I’m sure they’ll develop some packages (we haven’t seen them yet but they wouldn’t want to show us) where he gets the ball on offense. Also, he’s apparently running track, and Ron Helmer is going to to absolutely love him.

Wouldn’t be totally shocked if Clyde Newton starts, but i’d say he’s only the second-most likely freshman to start at linebacker. T.J. Simmons, who enrolled in the spring and was around for spring practice, seems to be ahead of the four. But I’d rank the freshman linebackers in terms of their likelihood to play immediately 1. Simmons. 2. Newton, 3. Marcus Oliver and 4. Khris Smith. That being said, I still think the veterans are likely to start. I’d say the favorites are David Cooper in the middle, Steven Funderburke on the strong side and Flo Hardin on the weakside. Again, Simmons and Newton will probably play, and you’ll certainly see Jacarri Alexander and Griffen Dahlstrom involved as well, but I think those guys are still a little ahead.

2. There haven’t been a lot of huge ones besides the likely-season ender for Chase Hoobler. Chris Cormier’s knee injury certainly holds him back and that’s a little problematic because I think they were hoping he could make an immediate impact as a junior college transfer. Defensive end David Kenney has been out with some sort of injury so he’s lost some important time, but I still think he’s the most talented end they have and he’s going to find his way out here. Cornerback Rashard Fant had a hamstring injury, and that might be what locks up a redshirt for him. The Hoosiers love the four-star recruit as a cover guy, but they were concerned about his slight build from the beginning, and this gives them a better excuse to have him take a year to build up his frame so he can not only cover but tackle somebody.

3. Everything is in flux with recruiting right now after Blackmon’s decommitment. Robert Johnson certainly seems to be a focus, but Isaiah Whitehead out of Brooklyn suddenly is too. Other than Dante Exum (who I really don’t think is going to college now and is probably a top five pick in the 2014 draft) Whitehead is the best player they’re recruiting. LeRon Black just cut his choices down to four and Indiana’s on that list. Lourawls Nairn is interesting as is Quentin Snider. And there’s still Goodluck Okonoboh of course. A lot of things can break a lot of different ways for them, and I’m sure they’ll get some highly-regarded players.

ANDY: TJ:

1. Big buzz around Laray Smith. How fast is he? To quote Stephen Houston: “He makes my fast look slow.” Dude ran a 6.49 in the 55m, 10.43 in the 100 and a 21.33 in the 200 last year, but he isn’t just fast. He seems to have good vision, cutting ability and overall moxie as a runner. He needs to get stronger and has had some ball-security issues, but CKW Wilson has already said Smith is likely to play in support of Coleman and Houston. Newton may or might not start, but he’s another freshman who is probably going to play a lot of snaps. A couple of linebackers have gotten dinged, but it’s worth noting Newton has been running with the 1s and 2s lately.

2. Fortunately, there isn’t much in the way of serious injury so far. Chris Cormier got his knee scoped, but is expected back before the end of camp. Rashard Fant is missing time with a hamstring issue. He’s probably one of IU’s best cover guys, just in terms of natural ability, but there was some question about his readiness at only 162 pounds to begin with. And Ricky Jones has a minor shoulder issue that isn’t expected to linger.

3. As has been noted by several people, Robert Johnson is down at the cross roads, trying to beg a ride (a full-ride, that is.) And he might well end up headed for Bloomington, though obviously there are plenty of people willing to pick him up. Heard he’s really come along well this summer. And I’ll let Dustin and Jeremy weigh in more fully on that and the other basketball AAU stuff, since they follow that more closely. I will only add that when I spoke to James Blackmon up in Tipton after the Indiana Senior-Junior All-Star scrimmage there in June, there was no intimation whatsoever that he was considering opening up his commitment. He talked pretty freely and frankly about looking forward to playing at IU. To be honest, unlike most decommit situations, I don’t necessarily think his original school is totally out of the picture here, even now. I think he’ll in all probability head elsewhere, of course, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near as final as the Trey Lyles situation always was after that decommit. And I, like you, also love Blackmon’s game.

Weather is awesome. Almost unprecedented. Am enjoying it immensely. Not a big fan of heat and humidity.

QUESTION: 1) Do you have any indication of what football ticket sales look like? With all of the positive news, analysts being bullish, recruiting class growth, etc., it looks like this year could be a lot of fun. I’m hoping to see and hear other IU fans further up the stands than I’ve been!

2) As a ticket holder in Football and Basketball, I need to keep boosting my priority points to get better seats. This year, I’m going to get either soccer or baseball tickets. Any advice to a casual fan about which might be better facility/environment to bring three young kids to?

3) What’s the single IU sporting event you’re looking most forward to covering this year?

 

Nate, Bloomington

JEREMY: Nate,

I’ll leave your first question to the football guys.

 

But as for No. 2, you really couldn’t go wrong with either one of those teams, the two most successful sports last school year. Can’t speak a lot to the baseball environment at Kaufman Field, but there are always plenty of kids running around Armstrong during soccer games. Just steer clear of the student section opposite the main stands and press box, those folks have been known to forgo a PG rating on occasion.

 

3. Good question, but you never really know the answer, because it depends on what matchup turns out to be significant in the regular season, or as in the case last year, winding up at the College Cup was rather unexpected.

DUSTIN: Nate,

1. I just put in a text for this after Jeff Arnold’s question. (I think I remembered that right). Anyway, according to IU spokesman Jeff Keag, season tickets are up 5 percent overall and 18 percent among students from the same time last year. So better, but not exponentially so.

2. I don’t think you can go wrong with either. I haven’t been to much soccer, but it has an awesome cult following in Bloomington and you’re looking at a defending championship team that’s going to carry in a preseason No. 1 ranking. It’s going to be jacked over at Armstrong this year. That being said, Bart Kaufman Field is pretty spectacular, especially compared to Sembower Field, and the baseball team is going to have an excellent opportunity to repeat what it did last year. The team only took a handful of significant losses (pitcher Aaron Slegers, shortstop Michael Basil, center fielder Justin Cureton), and many of the biggest stars (Kyle Schwarber, Sam Travis, Dustin DeMuth, Joey DeNato, Ryan Halstead, etc.) are back. When that place is packed it’s a great environment. So you can’t make a wrong choice there.

3. There’s no answer for that one yet. An IU-Syracuse rematch could be interesting and there are a number of football games I think are going to be definitive (Navy, Missouri, Penn State among them) but I don’t know where that season ends. We haven’t even seen an IU basketball schedule yet, and so much is possible for basketball and baseball. I couldn’t have told you last year at this time that I’d spend a week in June in Omaha, so there’s no point in guessing where this year ends up.

ANDY: Nate:

 

1. Checked a couple of weeks ago and football ticket sales seemed good, not great, but IU standards. Student ticket sales were strong. The Hoosiers need to have a hot start, given how the schedule shapes up, and such a start would obviously be conducive to bumping attendance north of 40,000 pretty consistently, I think. If the start, say, 2-2, well, that’s another matter altogether.

 

2. Both Bill Armstrong Stadium and the new Bart Kaufman Field are attractive, kid-friendly sort of venues. And both home teams at those venues figure to be among the national elite again this year. So beyond just contemplating whether your kids might like baseball or soccer better, the other thing I might mention is that there are more home baseball dates than there are home soccer dates, so it might depend upon how frequently you think your kids want to get out to games.

 

3. The Old Oaken Bucket game. Without really knowing what sort of great games might arise, say, at tournament time for basketball, baseball, soccer and other sports, that football regular-season finale is something I can count on. I’ve obviously been around a while, and I love rivalry games with a lot of tradition behind them. There is always just a special vibe, regardless of the teams’ records or the given situation.

QUESTION: Can we expect to see Tre in a role like the talent at Northwestern? Seems to me IU might have as many if not more weapons as NW with this approach.

 

Ron, Indianapolis

DUSTIN: Mr. Graham, I can tell you, is a huge fan of this idea. I say it’s possible that they could do something like this with Nate Sudfeld and Tre, but I would point out that Kain Colter was at worst the second-best athlete on Northwestern’s offense along with Venric Mark. He was one of the team’s top receivers as a sophomore when he wasn’t playing much quarterback and Dan Persa was the guy. Roberson’s only been a quarterback. You would take Colter at tailback over anyone but Mark and at wide receiver over just about everybody on that Northwestern team. I wouldn’t want Roberson at tailback over Tevin Coleman or Stephen Houston or probably Laray Smith for that matter. And I wouldn’t even consider him as a receiver before the fifth spot, because you’re not taking Cody Latimer, Shane Wynn, Kofi Hughes or Duwyce Wilson off the field for him. That being said, having another quarterback on the field allows you to do a lot of funky stuff, so it’s not out of the question that they could go that route. I don’t think he’d be used as extensively at other positions as Colter was last year, but I also think they still find a way to get him on the field if he doesn’t win the quarterback job.

ANDY: Ron:

I’ve thought that was a viable alternative for some time now, though I don’t know that’s what CKW will choose to do. It’s pretty easy to see Tre in a Colter sort of role, with either Sudfeld or Coffman filling the Siemian role (especially Sudfeld, as the more pure pocket passer.) Not that IU would approach it exactly the same way, even if the Hoosiers went that route. Tre wouldn’t necessary deploy as a wideout as often as Colter does, for example, and there might be different tweaks. But there is no question the general approach you mention worked pretty well for the Wildcats last season (10-3, bowl win.)

But either Sudfeld or Coffman could win the job outright. And Tre might win the job and play pretty much every snap. And I think those are certainly viable avenues, too. Tre would seem to be the front-runner, but I wouldn’t be overly surprised if one the other guys also plays with some regularity. I think CKW is at least open to that notion.

QUESTION: What’s the biggest threat to the stability that seems to have been built in iu bball over the past few years? Thanks.

Doug, Dallas

JEREMY: Doug,

The biggest threat is a combination of regression and/or stagnation. The overall impression on IU is that this is a program on the rise both in terms of on-court success and player development for the next level. That’s why this upcoming year is so interesting, because if these heralded freshmen don’t live up to those expectations, it could shape perception for future recruits. But if Vonleh lives up to the hype and somebody else enjoys a breakthrough season among the freshmen or sophomores, the profile continues to rise for IU.

This is the first season where Tom Crean has a team that includes the kind of parts he wants, recruits at a level that should be at least maintained going forward. So how things shake out could be quite insightful. Now one off year would hardly be fatal, but another Sweet 16 I would view as a noteworthy accomplishment.

In the long term, clearly the expectations are for IU to eventually reach a Final Four and ultimately win a national title. Five years down the road and neither has happened, then things could get interesting.

DUSTIN: This is a really good question and I’m not sure it’s answerable. If there’s an obvious answer, I guess it’s “the unknown.” If you asked what the biggest threat to the stability of Penn State football was in 2008, there are no amount of guesses that would’ve come up with what turned out to be the right answer to that question. So you never really know what kind of twist of fate is possible. But it also depends on how you define stability. The only scenario that leads to Indiana ending up 6-25 again is a major scandal that none of us can predict. But they’re not going to win the Big Ten championship and go to the Sweet 16 every year either. The biggest threat to them becoming a program that can do that consistently is just the unpredictability of recruiting. Much of Indiana’s staying power as a program comes from the fact that it’s in a fertile recruiting ground, and whenever there isn’t depth of talent in the state, the Hoosiers have to go outside and it becomes a little bit more difficult to get players. (For instance, the 2014 group is extremely top heavy, hence the reason they’re now looking out of state after the Lyles and Blackmon de-commits). So if they find themselves having to win all of their battles out of state, that makes it harder for IU to stay on top, but they’re always going to have enough drawing power to put together a talented team that finishes in at least the top half of the Big Ten. Any threat to that, I think, is something we haven’t heard of.

ANDY: Doug:

Hmmm. Hard to say, barring anything unforeseen, like some sort of unexpected scandal. The program is on pretty firm footing. The fan base was, overall, very supportive of CTC while working through and recovering from the program’s nadir. People were patient. But they weren’t very happy about that Syracuse game last March. Over time, people are going to expect consistent competitiveness for Big Ten titles and they’re going to want to see a Final Four trip and/or a national title. If those things don’t materialize over the next few years, eventually pressure will build. But as of now, it looks like pretty smooth sailing to me.

QUESTION: How are we doing on Footbal Season Ticket sales so far?

Jeff Arnold, Bloomington

DUSTIN: Not sure now that you ask. Just dropped a line to IU SID Jeff Keag to see if he knows. Will throw that in if I get something. Sorry about that.

ANDY: Last I heard, a couple of weeks back, sales were reasonably robust, with a good student response (no doubt buoyed by the tying of student basketball ticket availability to the football ducats), but I haven’t heard updated numbers. We’ll be checking on that.

QUESTION: OSD on board for another rodeo. Hope you boys are doing well. A bit chilly here in beautiful NW Indiana last night. Almost a “Three Dog Night.” Maybe that bodes well for getting DE. Andy might be the only one to understand about what I am referring to. Well enough levity and onto the questions.

Looks like CTC with all his activity has moved on from James (I backed out to go to UK) Blackmon. So has he left him in the proverbial dust like TL? Hope so.

Looks like we have some good possibilities at guard with RJ, Whitehead, Lou Rawls and Hill. I say RJ pops first. What say you?

Also do we have a shot at Black or Goodluck or both?

Does this Blackmon thing cause any long term damage for us in state? I smell a Cailpari rat with the whole deal. His Daddy made a big mistake going to UK thought maybe that is why he picked IU but guess the apple don’t fall too far from the tree. Good luck getting Mr. Basketball Jr.

Never hear about Trevor Bullet (sp) any more. Is he going up north or to PU.

Well that is about all the time the Dude has for you today. You boys keep filing them reports. Big w/e here in Chicago as Andy’s Cards are coming to town. Hope we can sweep them and knock out of race. Sorry Andy but you know how Cubs and Cards fans feel about each other.

And just like the Dude was gone……………………………….

Old Sports Dude, Crown Point

JEREMY: OSD,

Have my doubts Dante Exum ever plays a minute of college basketball, but the Hoosiers have certainly turned up the focus on finding another guard to replace Blackmon. And I know Blackmon still says IU has a chance, and IU is still recruiting him, but let’s face it, these decommits almost never end in a recommit.

So I think Robert Johnson is tops on the wish list and the likely to commit list. Whitehead is really new, so who knows about that one? LouRawls Nairn is a possibility, certainly fits the Yogi Ferrell mode. Seemed like both IU and Ahmed Hill had cooled on each other before Blackmon’s decommitment. Have my doubts there, but I’ve been wrong once or twice before.

 

In my opinion, Bluiett is UCLA or Michigan, with Arizona a dark horse.

 

Now that the Reds have swept through Chicago, I’ll cheer for the Cubs against Andy’s beloved Cards this weekend.

DUSTIN: Dude,

I don’t think he’s backed off on Blackmon entirely. I think you’ll see him take an official visit to IU. I don’t know if he’ll actually re-commit, but I think he’ll take an official visit. There were a lot fewer personal misgivings with this one than the Trey Lyles de-commit. As for Kentucky, well, we’ll see. But you’ve gotta tone it down with the animosity toward the high school kids, Dude. Can’t be good for your stress level, and if you find yourself taking the decisions of 17-year-old kids personally, well, your bound to be disappointed or worse.

I dont’ think Bluiett ends up at Purdue. I’m not even sure Purdue’s still involved. Butler has a chance, but I think Michigan or UCLA are more likely destinations. Would be at all surprised to see him follow Ed Schilling out West.

I do think Robert Johnson is the most likely get among the guards, but Whitehead’s a better player and I’m sure they want him bad. And I gather that they have a shot at Black and Okonoboh, but they could also miss on both. Going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Thanks as always Dude.

ANDY: Dude:

 

Hee hee. Pretty good levity. My wife’s first actual big concert was Three Dog Night, by the way. Mine? Jethro Tull.

 

Don’t know if anybody’s gonna get DE. But if anybody does, it’d probably be IU.

 

CTC is still recruiting Blackmon. Was never the case with Lyles. And, yes, there are reasons for that.

 

Don’t think IU’s experience with the in-state class of 2014 will matter much down the road, one way or another. The Hoosiers will recruit the state hard. A lot of Indiana players will still be interested in playing at IU. But it’s safe to say IU’s recruiting is national in scope now.

 

Might Calipari have something to do with it? No way! He says he’s CTC’s BFF! And BFFs don’t treat each other that way, right? (By the way, it’s also interesting to note that Michigan State is also recruiting Blackmon.)

 

Bluiett (who is a really, really good player) has never really seemed destined for Bloomington. IU is one of his schools, but the talk with him is mostly Michigan, UCLA and Butler.

 

Hell, the Cubs just nearly swept my team in St. Louis. Egad.

QUESTION: So how do they count basketball attendance — people through the gate or tickets sold? Unless my memory is failing (and it could be), Assembly Hall was always full during the undefeated seasons of 1974-75 and ’75-76, even the student section. We went to the games to watch IU, it didn’t matter who they were playing. Now, there are often empty seats, sometimes a lot of them, in pre-Big Ten games. I find it hard to believe the past season could have had a higher average attendance than the undefeated national championship season.

 

Mike, Bloomington

JEREMY: Mike,

I believe it is based on tickets sold, not actually attendance. And Assembly Hall has added a few seats by rearranging press row, among other things. Go back and watch a replay of a game from 25 years ago, and you’ll notice a few differences in the courtside setup that would help explain the difference.

DUSTIN: Pretty sure it’s tickets sold, and I think the capacity is higher than it was then. I’m not exactly sure how that is considering that there’s a lot of old seats there, but you didn’t see averages over 17,000 until the 2000s. So that’s at least part of the explanation. But yeah, it’s definitely tickets sold. They don’t penalize the school’s numbers for people who buy tickets and don’t show up.

ANDY: Mike:

Good point. I had the same thought. Then I remembered they’ve actually added a few seats since those halcyon mid-1970s days. The old press row, for example, used to be up in the stands. That area is now all paid seating, and they’ve added seats in pretty much every nook and cranny around the court, too.

QUESTION: In my opinion, we seem to have pretty good success with getting involved with and landing pretty good talent late in the recruiting process as evidenced by the signing of Troy, Noah and Stan. With that being said, is it really worth offering scholarships to kids as early as we have done in the past? They seem to like the big name schools coming at them at the last minute.

 

indianavelt, Fort Wayne

JEREMY: indianavelt,

I think you’re absolutely right on. Now, you probably don’t want to wait until after a recruit’s junior year to make an offer if its an in-state player, who might view that as a slight. And occasionally, an obvious national talent is going to draw a lot of big-time offers early. But I still think less is more when it comes to offers, and as you say, IU has had a lot of success getting in late on some big-time players recently. That trend is continuing with this 2014 class, which prompts you to think maybe that is the way to go. I know Indiana wants to show players they’re serious early and develop a relationship, but I think you can do that by attending games, emails and text messages, etc. without necessarily offering a scholarship right off the bat. There’s something to be said for making an offer a bit more rare and as such more appreciated by those who receive them.

DUSTIN: As I was saying to Darren earlier, there is a different dynamic with in-state and out-of-state kids. You’re always going to know about your in-state kids early and they’re going to know about you. They sort of expect you to offer early, especially in Indiana where the kids are really up on college ball more than anything else. They might hold it against you if you don’t. When it comes to out-of-state kids, they sort of understand why you don’t get involved with them until later in the process. It’s harder for coaches to get to their games and such and to get to see them a lot. I say all that to say I’m not sure if Indiana would have any better chance at James Blackmon if it would’ve waited until he was a junior that it would have if it got involved early. It might have been better off if Blackmon didn’t COMMIT that early, but once they made the offer, they really had no choice but to take it. It’s hard to say, because there’s a lot of amateur psychology involved. But there’s a benefit if you’re an in-state school to offering first. If you’re an out-of-state school, it costs you less to jump in late.

ANDY: Indianavelt: I think a lot of folks are looking at it that way. And CTC’s recruiting situation has changed some now. Early on, he had to be very aggressive in addressing a pretty desperate situation. Now, he just sent two guys through the first four picks in the NBA draft. Methinks he’ll likely be more selective and probably won’t offer as many kids early as things proceed.

QUESTION: MODERATOR: That’s all the time we have for today’s chat. Thanks for joining us.

Andy, Jeremy, Dustin: What else are you all up to in terms of coverage this week and weekend?

JEREMY: Enjoyed it as usual. More soccer, both college and high school, on my agenda for the next week. And keeping an eye on the ever fluid IU basketball recruiting scene, too. See you folks next Thursday.

DUSTIN: We’ve got some more football availability tomorrow and we’ll have notes from today’s coming up on the Scoop soon. Two weeks from today football starts. Thanks everybody.

ANDY: Looking forward to conversing with Kevin Wilson in the wake of Friday afternoon’s scrimmage, to heaer what he might have to say about it. It’s two weeks to opening kickoff now, and it’ll be interesting to see if any players seem to be surfacing into definite playing roles or if any position battles seem to be shaking out. Pretty soon, the guys emerging as the potential starters will start needing to get more of the reps.

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42 comments:
#1 Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 9:41 PM EDT

Where is the story on Ty Smith’s arrest? Why am I learning about this from TMZ and not the Scoop??

I NEED ANSWERS.

 
#2 Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:25 PM EDT

This story has been up for free all day at HeraldTimesOnline.com.

 
#3
Harvard for Hillbillies
Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:49 PM EDT

Wow…Thanks for bring forward that question, Aruss. Seems like that news should have also been shared with fans of the Scoop since the names are so closely tied to Indiana sports.

I never imagined we had such thugs attending IU. Wow…just..wow. Sons of Mellencamp and our baseball coach facing felony battery charges. I must be living in a cave because your posing the inquiry was the first I’ve heard of any of this.

And wasn’t there something about Larry Bird’s son a few months back…?

Bunch of hillbilly, redneck, drunk, thumper-thugs…I’ll choose smoking reefer in a dorm room with Jamarcus Ellis any old day of the week.

 
#4 Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:35 PM EDT

Jeremy – are you guys following up with Coach Smith? And his son being kicked off the team?

I don’t care about the Mellencamps but Smith is suppose to represent IU and needs to be punished…severely. The fact that I found this on a national web site (which may also make their tv show) after the world series run is disgraceful.

 
#5 Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:42 PM EDT

Dustin, as usual, is on it. No comment from the football or baseball camps on Thursday.

 
#6
TsaoTsuG
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 3:25 AM EDT

Answer Aruss- because you didn’t read the paper. I did find the story on Mellencamp’s and Coach Smith’s sons, right under the (two) headers that identified the three individuals and their relationship. Not sure what else you are looking for.

The story is not a sports story. It is what it is, a simple, every day battery story belonging in the city/cop shop space. It identifies (without sensationalizing the the story’s ‘celebrity’ content status.

The only sports story here may be a very short note on any disciplinary action once the facts are established in terms of IU athletic policies.

You contradict yourself. You seem top be making the point that they (these three boys) should receive no special treatment because of who they are. But, then you demand exactly that, special attention beyond the facts of their transgression because of whose sons they are. The story should be handled exactly as what it is. No more, no less.

And…your “I NEED ANSWERS” demand? Do you have any idea how stupid it sounds?

 
#7
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 5:30 AM EDT

Of course it’s newsworthy and should find more than the appropriate general section of the paper where any Joe/Jane Blow arrested or charged with a felony finds his/her name.

We hear when Crean and his son help get a stranded motorist out of a snowy ditch, but if it’s a felony charge against Tracey Smith’s son, a player on the IU football team, it’s not worthy of Scoop?

The only reason it didn’t find the pages of Scoop was because it is a coach’s son involved and the writers have lost their sense of ‘objectivity’ due to the emotional attachments that likely came from covering the baseball team up close and personal during their unbelievable run to the College World Series…The other reason far removed from objectivity likely surrounds the desire to keep the fantasy alive…And what is that fantasy? It’s the same fantasy that Tsao cannot escape…All is squeaky clean at Indiana except those flunkies with their 19 F’s that came on the bus with Kelvin Sampson.

This was a violent assualt where fists continued to be thrown even under a situation where the one being attacked was on the ground and outnumbered(at least according to the descriptions and accounts from witnesses featured in the HT story).

The attackers should incur a stiff penalty. It should raise concerns. If it’s a former IU player named Armon Bassett getting in a bar fight in Terre Haute it’s the same old “I always knew the loser was a thugs..” But a story about a current IU football player that acts in the same violent fashion we decide to not care that he emulates the “cleaned up Dodge City” atmosphere that is supposed to be bubbling out every corner since the days Sampson’s despicable gangs of Chicago left us “decimated” and shamed? Now it is a private matter and being handled(as it should be) appropriately by the rug in charge of covering the dirt…? OMG…The hypocrisy is nauseating.

It’s almost scary how you flip the rules of the game, Tsao. These are shameful acts…They are a reflection of values..One is a young men as close as you can get to the leader of a major sports program. They deserve a pass from the same mud-slinging, innuendo, assumptions of guilt, etc., simply because they’re now part of this fantasy of inconsistencies you’ve built to what constitutes a degenerate and a thug?

 
#8
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 6:30 AM EDT

This has been pretty easy to find since 2:00 yesterday afternoon.

 
#9
Mariner Tom
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 9:18 AM EDT

Harvard, cut to the chase, and stop dressing up your point: you think that white kids who do bad things get off the hook, and black kids get called thugs. Plain and simple.

 
#10
Chet
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 11:54 AM EDT

It’s certainly no kind of leap to say that a white kid is more likely to catch a break from the criminal justice system than a black kid and a rich white kid is gonna probably skate on anything short of murder when a poor white kid would go to jail. That’s neither news nor social commentary. Just observation. It’s just the way the world has worked (at least in the USA) for a long time.

There are probably more criminals per capita on Wall Street than in Compton, California, but none of them are likely to ever see the inside of a courtroom let alone a jail.

There are a couple in my family. The fascinating part is how sanctimonious they are toward poor black and brown petty criminals while trying to come up with new ways to take what little they have.

 
#11
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 12:09 PM EDT

…what a negative summation, successful people are successful because they are crooks…I personally know 100′s of successful men and women and not 1 did anything illegal to anyone else…black nor white…

 
#12 Friday, August 16, 2013 - 12:32 PM EDT

Forget race, this is about an IU athlete committing a felony and bringing shame upon our university. We’ve mocked O$U for this nonsense all summer.

The other issue is why this isn’t on The Scoop. This is an IU athletics story with two sports involved. I think it’s safe to say Jeremy & Dustin see me as their unofficial editor of The Scoop so finding this on TMZ and not here was wrong.

 
#13 Friday, August 16, 2013 - 1:32 PM EDT

Aruss,
We think no such thing.
We probably should have linked this on here. But it was also the top story on our website (not someone else’s website, our website) for the last 24 hours. Not sure how you could argue that we swept it under the rug.

 
#14
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 2:44 PM EDT

I don’t know, Dustin..

There was no discussion on Scoop about the alleged assualt..It would be wonderful if we all read the HT on a daily basis, but I think the reality is that most the Yacht Club members concentrate on IU sports by way of this great site you’ve offered for years.

All we ever hear is how much Tsao wants something approaching equal coverage of all Hoosier sports on Scoop…There are plenty of indicators that this is where your very loyal family of readers and viewers(We are family, right?)ingests and debates everything Hoosier sports. We go beyond the scores, the recruits, the stats…You’ve watched readers obsess over issues that tons of gray area(we’ve gone on for days on whether the noose of a C- should be used to hang a young man from his chance to prove he can improve once surrounded by stronger role models..We’ve gone on and on over values and character being so vital to every aspect of Hoosier sports). The lines in the sand amongst many blogger on this site have been drawn with a pervasive attitude there should be no exceptions or passes given for anything that harms the infallible image they now believe to back at the compound.

You’ve watched all these debates..You’ve watched and read posts where there hardliners keep building the fantasy..Now the fantasy has slapped them back in the face and you decide it’s best left off the pages of Scoop? There are forces at work.

And when does a newspaper(or this very website)decide to step up with some form of social commentary? Why is there a different set of rules for who deserves public humiliation? Why were we so obsessed with Eric Gordon telling us all the gory details of those horrible thug teammates that allegedly dabbled in weed, cut classes, and were given protections /free passes because they were all akin to being surrogate sons of Kelvin Sampson..? But this story, involving an actual offspring a prominent sports figure at IU, putting a felony on the billboard our new Irish Spring clean campus and sports programs, is just boys being drunk boys…? Nothing wrong with pummeling and bloodying a kid with love fists of happiness and angelic hooks and uppercuts…? These aren’t thugs…? Angels in the Outfield’ and ‘Thugs on the Hardwood’: That’s the message sent when you keep this story away from your family of devoted Scoop readers. ‘White Men Can’t Jump’ and neither can the Bloomington Confederate Press can’t jump their white protected butts because HT brass and Mellencamp’s ass share the same row of seats at Assembly Hall with their same sets of lawyers?

 
#15
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 3:04 PM EDT

Dustin-

I bet you could write a book…You SHOULD write a book. You could be the Anthony Bourdain of what actually goes on behind the scenes at a hometown newspaper hellbent on protecting the image of the sacred sports so important to its own vitality and the inhabitants of the town.

I’d love to read that book..Could spawn a whole new career path for you. You’ve had so much access during some very interesting times in Bloomington..So much painting of good vs. evil…So much deception and selling? Who wouldn’t love to hear it all told from a true insider? Go rogue on them, Dusty.

 
#16 Friday, August 16, 2013 - 3:46 PM EDT

That was cold blooded, Dustin.

 
#17 Friday, August 16, 2013 - 4:23 PM EDT

The local newspaper is so hellbent on protecting the image of its own sports that it puts the arrest of the baseball coach’s son on the front page and as the top story on the website. I know Harvard, we really covered that one up.
I’ll take responsibility for failing to understand the fact that a lot of you guys don’t read the main website. I had nothing more to add to the story beyond what we’d printed until just now, so I found it redundant to from the blog to the main page of the website. I should know better. That being said, I take issue with the insinuation that a story that had that much placement was covered up.

 
#18
Chet
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 5:25 PM EDT

I’m successful with adequate money and haven’t broken any laws either. I’ve even tried to make a point of doing some good for society in the process because I’m a parent and that’s what parents should do. I can, however, name quite a few billionaires right off the top of my head that SHOULD be facing a jury instead of a Senate confirmation hearing. Their actions aren’t secret, they are simply above the law.

For every Bernie Madoff there’s a Jamie Dimons or Neil Bush that have so much money or political clout that they will never be prosecuted.

Are you REALLY claiming that’s not true? Is your news source THAT distorted?

 
#19
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 5:36 PM EDT

Aruss and H4H, I do not subscribe to a damn thing and I knew about this with no problem. Aruss you found this out on TMZ, great, H4H you need to expand your horizon. Bitchin is free to those that earn it.

 
#20
Hoosier Clarion
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 5:41 PM EDT

…No baby robin it is not, it also includes the Kennedys and the Clintons…

 
#21
TsaoTsuG
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 6:28 PM EDT

Like most of you, I had absolutely no problem locating the story yesterday, mid-afternoon or so. Those involved were identified in the headers. Likely, the problem may have been caused by a poor lead by a reporter not from the sports staff who focused on the Mellencamps and did not identify the Smith son until further down the introduction. Likely, she made the Mellencamp before the Smith connection and needs a better, more informative lead.

The insinuatrion of privilege’ is, however, not surprising. Both Aruss and HIV (Harvard-IndianaVirus) never tire of using the Hoosiers and/or the HT Sports staff as their urinal, satisfying whatever failures in their own achievements frustrate them.

The story is about a felony crime. It was handled as that and reported the same way, detailing the role of the three participants. It should be reported in the same way and I believe it was.

To be truthful and consistent, I really do think that this particular type of crime is exactly the same type we suffer from ‘gangbangers’ in Chicago on a near ‘daily’ basis; crimes in some neighborhoods that involve members of one gang taking revenge for some affront on members of another gang, done in similar drive-by’s only using 9mm semi-automatics. Both can have the same lethality and tragic outcomes. In Chicago, the drive-by hits a four-year old girl in a swing in the park; in Bloomington, some other 20-year old i*iot sitting on a porch swing.

 
#22
TsaoTsuG
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 7:07 PM EDT

Baby Robin- somehow I knew you’d turn the story into a morality play and paid political ad.

We are so proud of knowing you did so much to make America a better place to live.

We should proudly send a copy of your admirable performance as a parent to not only to the Madoffs (who, btw also gave to both parties as did the Dimmons,etal but to other admirable Democratic parents such as Weiner, Rod Blagojevich…, oh yeah, almost forgot Jesse Jackson Sr…and JJ Jr and his lovely wife Ms Alderwoman Mommie JJ Jr. who now gets to stay home to take care of the kids until it’s her turn (they take turns in the cell, you know) to go sit in the corner…solid Democratic families who fight for the poor and victimized. (You’ve got to be, in the very least, a cute Demo ward chairman Baby Robin). (And, given the state of their party, the money is even that when they get out of the slammer, they may still get elected to represent their constituency). By the way, did you know that JJ Jr. was elected to replace another great Democrat icon, Mel Reynolds who was busted on top of his desk with a 14-year old constituent? Baby Robin…Baby Robin…!!

 
#23
OldIUGymnast
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 7:52 PM EDT

After reading the police report – this sounds a whole lot like fights that take place all over Bloomington on any given weekend night. I pulled my cousin out of a fight like this in Bloomington 25 years ago. We just were smart enough to take off before the cops got there. I am not excusing this behavior – My cuz was on the receiving end and I just pulled him out of the pile on. There is no excuse.

It also looks like Young Mr. Smith – at least according to the Police Report – was not involved in the fight directly.

And absent any politics, it is simply a fact that a black kid doesn’t get the same treatment as a general rule by our CJ system. Denying that this takes place is like denying that the sun comes up in the east or that you can see lots of stars on clear nights if you are far away from lots of lights. Is this a good thing? I would say it is stupid, unAmerican and grossly unfair. I also think it is telling that the response to Chet noting this simple truth was to call him names…. It really is too bad that apparently we can no longer have a simple, honest conversation about how to make America a better place for everyone. “I got mine, screw you” seems to rule the conversation these days. Flame away.

 
#24
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 9:01 PM EDT

What kid punches his own father in the eye?

Redneck, hillbilly, spoiled, drunk, thumper-thugs that need two friends to take to a fight because their cowards of the night.

Exactly the type of thug Bobby was grabbing by the arm and why we’re where we at today. Kids with no civility and total lack of dignity. These are the young men that she be put on buses without their daddy’s money and left to live in a car on the South Side of Chicago. See how long their macho bravado works on those streets.

They’ll grow up to beat their wives and send images of their privates to internet bimbos.

 
#25
Harvard for Hillbillies
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 9:02 PM EDT

…{they’re} cowards of the night.

 
#26
Chet
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 9:22 PM EDT

They are more comfortable with name calling than with simple truths that result in questions.

 
#27
Hoosier Clarion
Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 8:26 AM EDT

…and along with the Kennedys and Clintons the simple truth also includes the liberal pretty boy Jon Edwards…the very simple truth is there is plenty of trash on both sides…if you would resist stressing mine, I in turn would refrain from highlighting yours…in other words as far as you and I are concerned this blog then would be as it was a year and a half ago…my hand is open… what say you?…

 
#28 Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 9:57 AM EDT

John Calipari’s secret weapon…(a.k.a..”How I got Terrence Jones to fall in love with UK).

 
#29
TsaoTsuG
Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 2:29 PM EDT

I also feel strongly as Hoosier Clarion and open my hand. Would love to have this blog return to the intelligent, friendly, hopeful Hoosier ‘band of brothers’ blog it was until a year ago with many of the same characters, including you Chet, HC, Podunker, many others and revive the hope that some who have left return.

It was a great blog, intelligent and positive. Even differences led to great conversations.

My hand is also open. Thanks for your statement HC…said something we all wanted tohear and needed to hear. Tsao

 
#30
Harvard for Hillbillies
Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 3:38 PM EDT

A good starting point would be an admission that a “thug” at IU can come from any walk of life…

These guys are thugs too, Tsao…Simply because they can buy their way into a school with their lower than average grades by way of a parent that’s a celebrity, get preferential treatment because they’re offspring of a successful coach, come in a different skin color than most the labeled Sampson recruits, or aren’t from the mean streets of South Side Chicago, doesn’t change the fact that these despicable and violent actions are more “thug-like” than a bad grade or smoking pot.

These thugs should be dismissed from the university and the athletic programs. Hopefully they’ll get jail time. I don’t consider the watching of two friends beating a kid to the point he needs a plastic surgeon as any less the crime than if he was also throwing this fists and stomping on the head.

It’s great to open the hand…But I think Chet is understanding exactly what is present here. Admit these kids are screw-ups, opportunity ball-droppers, degenerates, immature, violent, spoiled, wasted, trash that is no different than the same brush you’ve constantly used to paint those that played for Sampson. All at IU is not so clean and saintly as the fantasy you desire everyone to believe.

 
#31
Chet
Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 9:42 PM EDT

HC, I’m ready to move on but I do have a question that I’d like you to clarify for me.

A while back you used an ugly epithet directed at a homosexual man. Dustin, and several regular Scoopers rightly admonished you for using the word in question.

Following Dustin’s chastisement for your use of that word, instead of an apology to the group, you stated, “I stand by my comment.”

I just wanted to ask, “Do you?”

Do you think that it is acceptable to call a gay man a f*****?”

 
#32
Hoosier Clarion
Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 11:06 PM EDT

Conditions is your response? When my statement was unconditional. So that is moving forward? So be it. I’ll answer your query in this manner. You have a strong negative bias for anyone in/from Kentucky and the university of. Growing up you were a neighbor of the state. Your Ruthie is from the state so you naturally have in-laws there. Your bias(or whatever you wish to term it)was developed from the evaluation of long term observation. Same as mine. No white man ever coerced, conditioned, trained or forced me to be the way I am. Just as you, I am the way I am through living life. Now to satisfy your “condition”. Indeed I do or I would not have stated so. Now we can move on or we can get just as nasty as we damn well please. Again, along with my faults, I offer my hand. But you do, as you see fit.

 
#33
TsaoTsuG
Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:49 AM EDT

That,.. is a man speaking! HC, I will cutting out your statement, folding it in my wallet and showing it to friends. I am proud to share being a Hoosier with you.

 
#34
Harvard for Hillbillies
Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 2:46 AM EDT

Maybe I haven’t been following along as well as I’ve deluded myself into believing, but I thought Ruthie was from Tennessee…

Then again, I thought there was a time…I dreamed a dream.

I wish something I said could end up in a wallet next to a fortune cookie fortune kept in good keeping. Was that redundant?

Now it’s time for “Hoosier Scoop in Rewind”…Dec. 7th, 2012

Hoosier Clarion
Friday, December 7, 2012 – 11:02 PM UTC

Chet,

Everything seems to be so fluid, now outpatients can spend the night. What comes next is whatever sticks to the rim of the toilet. Well hang tough and tell Ruthie I’d like to see her swim in the nude. Don’t P/O any Duke walk-on football players for at least 3 weeks.

#50
Chet
Friday, December 7, 2012 – 11:39 PM UTC

HC, thank you my tender vittles. After tolerating my blue cheese-stuffed Barney Frank burgers for 27 years, she’s up to pretty much anything.

 
#35 Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 8:35 AM EDT

Should I….? Uh, it’s so hard to hold back on this one….

Grrrrrrr….

Dammit!

I don’t disagree that HC is a “real man” – I’m sure he is more of a man than I will ever be. I understand that he is set in his ways, and I won’t budge him, so I’ve stopped trying. He is fine with where he is at and he’s unapologetic about it…

However, Tsao… I will phrase this as a question…. If you came across a 70 year old man who had lost his vision at 40 years old, and the 2 of you hit it off, and lets say starting a regular game of Chess (this blind guy has an excellent memory…). During games the 2 of you wax poetic over life and its issues… In his first 40 years he traveled and experienced much. Then one day, out of the blue this blind man starts berating South Americans. Thinks they are a lower class of human, and worthy of degradation and lower status legally… But hey, he’s blind and can’t see that you maybe have the skin-tone of someone from that region and doesn’t yet know you’re Argentinian.

Would you change your view of that man? Would you look forward to your weekly games of Chess? Would you admire him as a man because he is brave enough to befriend strangers he can’t see, all while berating you, your family, your culture, and your heritage?

Just a question. Here’s a couple more…

Was Hitler a real man for unapologetically killing Jews and Gays and others while extending his hand to Aryans? Do you carry around a copy of Mein Kampf?

Was David Duke a real man? I’m sure he would have extended his hand to me… Any quotes of his from the campaign trail cut out and neatly folded in your wallet?

 
#36
Chet
Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 11:49 AM EDT

Geoff, I visualized a crowd of those ‘real men’ standing on the pier with ax handles trying to keep those same South American immigrants from ‘poisoning the purity’ of ‘their’ country.

I’ve never traced my genealogy much. I had an uncle that was fascinated by that stuff and could probably tell you what kind of trees our familial apes preferred. I know my maternal grandmother was Cherokee and the fraternal line largely Irish.

My daughter took a genetics class and they did an ethnicity analysis. Turns out, among other contributors, I am the descendant of a black man or woman on both sides, plus Anglo-Scot-Irish-German on my Dad’s side.

My Mom’s side had my Cherokee grandmother (which further breaks down to some interesting stuff). Then it was a merry-go-round of much of Europe along with a sub-Saharan ancestor in the mix.

I suspected my (married) uncle was gay and his wife (my favorite aunt) was lesbian. I wasn’t very old when he died but my aunt afterward spent the rest of her days living with her seemingly androgynous friend named (I kid you not) Pat. They were my favorite relatives. Honest and kind with few, if any, pretenses. I’m sure if I had asked she would have told me.

In short, my family background is pretty much like everyone else’s.

I poke fun or even show antipathy toward people or groups for their actions and behaviors. If you steal a horse don’t be surprised if someone calls you a horse thief. Geoff’s reference to David Duke is an excellent example of a man that deserves no respect, indeed he is a contemptible human being. That is because of the things he has done in his life.

But to hate another person because of the marching orders given to the pairs of chromosomes they were born with? That’s what you consider being a ‘man’, Tsao, standing up for your prejudices? History is replete with many such men, including Mr. Duke. Spoiler alert, they ALL fall on the wrong side of history.

You can’t really know people in this kind of setting. Some of you I occasionally chat with outside of the Scoop. That being said, of all the people involved in this thread I’m most surprised by the statements made by Tsao.

I guess you just never know.

I’m headed off to South America myself soon and I expect to be pretty busy. I’ll just take some time to digest all of this.

 
#37 Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:16 PM EDT

Punjab… when is our draft?

 
#38
Podunker
Monday, August 19, 2013 - 6:33 PM EDT

The thug label is being thrown around on this string in reference to three young men who have been arrested and charged with assault. Let’s try to hold off on the use of labels until the facts are all in. Most people use the word “thug” to describe a male person who has displayed a pattern of behavior. To the best of our knowledge, this was a one-time incident and not the latest incident in a pattern of behavior.

Based on the news story that I read, one or more of these young men were at a social gathering when two young women began to “fight” over the affections of young Mr. Mellencamp. When the young man in question tried to stop the two females from fighting, he was assaulted and punched in the face by another man. Given that young Mr. Mellencamp has a history of an accomplished amatuer athlete and a college football players, that was very unwise. Some time later, young Mr. Mellencamp, his brother and his friend, another college athlete, found the man who punched young Mr. Mellencamp and, at the very least (according to reports), he assaulted the man by repeatedly punching and kicking him. His friend and brother may or may not have participated in the assault. And while that was certainly stupid and unacceptable behavior, that hardly qualifies these young men as “thugs.” Young men, of all races and socio-economic backgrounds, are prone to immature, stupid, dangerous and violent behavior, especially when young women are involved or after being punched in the face. Seeking and delivering retaliation is a stupid, dangerous and often expensive mistake, but lots of good young men, regardless of their race or economic circumstances have made that mistake, dating back to when man began walking the earth. In fact, grown men at the highest levels of society were known to engage in duals simply because one man’s honor or integrity had been challenged by another man.

Given the physical damage apparently done to the victim in this case, do these young men deserve to be punished by the criminal justice system? After all the facts come out, if they are tried and found guilty by a jury of their peers, yes they do. Are any of these young men likely to repeat this stupid mistake in the future? Probably not. But if they do, the label of “thug” would then be appropriate.

 
#39 Monday, August 19, 2013 - 9:02 PM EDT

I don’t really care about this story… didn’t know Mellancamp was involved until your post Po…

That being said I thought it was a good response.

People always want to fly off the handle. its one thing if it effects you… its another if you just like making a big stink because you crave attention.

 
#40
Ben
Monday, August 19, 2013 - 9:19 PM EDT

I wish we could submit comments through Facebook. Or have a secure log in. I garuntee it would clean up half of this crap.

 
#41
Podunker
Monday, August 19, 2013 - 9:35 PM EDT

Geoff, according to the story I read, young Mr. Mellencamp’s brother said that Ty Smith did not participate in the assault. Apparently, the Mellencamp brother that was involved was a very successful amateur boxer. I think I read that he won the Indiana State Championship or something. It is never a good idea to get into a fist fight with someone that has years of training and successful experience as a boxer, let alone a young man large enough and athletic enough to play college football for a BCS Conference school.

 
#42 Monday, August 19, 2013 - 11:12 PM EDT

Ha. Sorry Geoff. Left civilization for a while on a fishing trip with my dad. It was wonderful. Almost landed my first musky three separate times– one of them actually destroyed a nice bass right off my line as I was reeling it in.. Quite a sight to behold. But I digress…

I posted on the site. We can draft whenever. Still looking for fantasy footballers if anyone’s interested. (Talking to you, Harv. Every yacht club needs some flavor. If my wife can draft players she only recognizes from tabloids or Dancing with the Stars and still be competitive, anyone can…)
Mariner? IUBaseball? Bueller? Bueller…

Another shameless plug in case you missed it the first several times. Jeremy affirms the link works, so here’s the site: http://y.ahoo.it/61yZzy2m

 


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