Live Discussion: Indiana at Wisconsin


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90 comments:

  • Punjab #1


    Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 11:12 PM EDT

    I just don’t understand. I mean, I get that Wisconsin got hot, and we had some bounces and calls not go our way when the game was still close, but this team doesn’t even resemble itself from one half to the next. It’s not just shooting or play calling or intensity or defense or lineups. It’s all of the above. And it’s not like we haven’t seen this before. It’s not like this team can be stunned that it couldn’t coast with a double digit lead. I highly doubt the coaching staff doesn’t remind them what happened with NW, or PSU, or Minn, or Purdue. It’s not a surprise that the other team comes out with adjustments and more intensity after halftime. But why can’t we match it? I just don’t understand.

  • Punjab #2


    Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 11:29 PM EDT

    And before anybody jumps on the “oh sure, blame it on the refs” train, I thought the officiating was fine. No egregious calls, just typical home court advantage in the Big Ten. It was a close call, but if it’s at Assembly Hall, Will probably gets fouled on that rebound and Dekker doesn’t get a 3-point play. That– along with the 11-2 run to start the second half– ends up being the second turning point, and UW didn’t look back. That’s just the way it goes. Not bad calls. They just didn’t go our way, as they rarely do in the road. Unfortunately, this team isn’t equipped to handle it.

    I guess it really boils down to mental toughness, and this team has not fared well when faced with adversity. The cheeks tighten when they feel it slipping away, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s all I can come up with. Damn, it sucks. This team shows so much promise to look so bad half the time.

    Side note: real classy with the N-I-T chant, Wisconsin. Can’t wait ’til you and your high seed get bounced early from the tournament. Again.

  • Geoff #3


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 12:44 AM EDT

    Maybe the most frustrating game of the year for me…

    1. Great ball-movement and player-movement in the first half, and then in the second half we stand around and pound the crap it the ball. Dakich was so right when he said we were just making it easy for UW on defense.

    2. Why is it that everyone in the world knows that we have to get Vonleh touches except Yogi? How is that there are so many possessions in the second half that he doesn’t sniff the ball? And he swishes 2 gorgeous 3-ptrs in the first half and then we can’t run anything to get him a clean look from the wing in the last 30 minutes?!

    3. I swear to god I’m not exaggerating… I could score at will against Troy Williams. He has the worst defensive posture and feet I’ve seen maybe ever. He absolutely killed us in the 2nd half. It was probably the #1 reason the momentum turned and we lost control of the game. The good news is that he can learn good habits… Lord knows its necessary. If I were Crean I would sit him in front of the big movie screen by himself, with the rest of the team a couple rows back… And then just play the cuts of him getting killed. Make him watch it over and over and over and over and over until he feels so damn guilty that he did that to his teammates.

    4. Why did it take us 26 games to implement the set we used to run to get Cody the ball at the top of the key with a flat ball screen to get him going to the hoop? Is our team really that incompetent that we can’t run simple sets? It worked great for Noah today and I think they ran it for Stan once or twice.

    5. The refs were fine, except for that wierd stretch that got UW into the bonus in the 2nd half. 3 ticky-tac fouls in 30 seconds… Didn’t play into the outcome at all, and I have no complaints. We killed ourselves tonight and needed no help from anyone else losing that game.

  • pistolpete #4


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:30 AM EDT

    Did Perea issue a statement of any kind? Crean must have a soft heart. Sat him for just two games, I just don’t get it..Looks to me the players are running the team..Crean is just not getting it done..The pine is the best teacher. I better quit I’m starting to get fired up.

  • TJ in Texas #5


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:20 AM EDT

    I have to agree with Dustin in as much CTC gets a free pass for next year BUT I think the seat gets REAL hot depending on team’s performance thru the remaining schedule…better to buy out Crean than to fire him at end of next year and risk losing 2014 recruita to transfer and 2015 recruits to decommits….fire his ass at end of this year if team’s performance doesnt improve…at least a new coach could have HI’players” in place with 2015

  • Fab5 #6


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:29 AM EDT

    This is what happens when you only have 3 players; 1 is done (Will has checked out and I don’t blame him), 1 wants out (Yogi appears sick of Crean and I don’t blame him), and lastly Noah probably wishes badly now he would’ve chosen any number of other schools. Like I’ve now said for 6wks, IU is in real trouble. Everyone is to blame, I started to write a longer post about how it’s almost impossible for a group of this make up and fragile demeanor to win under a coach like Crean but then I stopped cause at this pt it’s not worth it to make any more pts.

  • RAM #7


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 9:03 AM EDT

    My guess is the coach doesn’t have a soft heart and Perea will continue to pay for his mistakes. IU has the better part of two years invested in this young man. The last thing they need right now is for Perea to start thinking he needs a fresh start at another program.That would leave you with Peter Jurkin. Think about it.

  • WaltD #8


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 9:10 AM EDT

    In obtaining recruits for the future, Crean, like any coach, needs to recruit players on more than their stats in shooting 3s,free throw percentage, rebounding, vertical leap, etc. He needs to recruit players who above all have a strong work ethic, are able to focus for forty minutes, know how to sustain success, and can adapt quickly to any situation that unfolds itself on the floor. While he has recruited some very good athletes, we need players with more of these mental skills. Otherwise, we will continue to blow leads and lose games in the second half.

  • Geoff #9


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 3:02 PM EDT

    WaltD – by all accounts Crean has a solid track record of recruiting kids with a strong work ethic.

    TJ – 2014 recruits committed to Crean, and we don’t currently have any 2015 commits, but they would have committed to Crean after the conclusion of this season… So, while there may be reasons to relieve Crean from his position, I would not include those among them.

  • TJ in Texas #10


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 3:34 PM EDT

    Geoff I didnt mean to say that the recruits are reason to relieve CTC of his duties;rather the effects of recruiting woukd be the consequences of waiting til end of next year

  • Geoff #11


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 4:18 PM EDT

    TJ – gotcha…

    Here’s a question – do you think that Crean’s recruiting is going to take a nose dive in the near future? I don’t think there is any question that it is his biggest strength as a head coach. He consistently brings in top 10 classes, and has developed a sweet spot of grabbing occasional 1-&-done types surrounded by other McDonald’s AAs and top 100 recruits that will stay around for 2-4 years. It’s tough to do much better than he’s done without attracting more 1-&-done types, which I think most of the IU fanbase would freak out about.

    So back to my original question… Do you think that recruiting will be greatly impacted by the W/L record ending out this year? Do you think the run of 4 consecutive years of highly ranked classes and McD’s AA’s will end?

    Or maybe this is a case where you think he is able to recruit just as well, but it won’t matter because he won’t be able to get the most out of them…?

  • Lord of the Steadied Ship #12


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 4:49 PM EDT

    His entire success is due to Cody Zeller…His top 10 recruiting classes would be the laughing stock of the nation as the most overrated in history. Dipo would have been stuck on a bottom-dweller and victories would not have been found to pad his national attention. Crean’s W/L record without landing Zeller would have been the worst results in a half century of IU basketball.

    He’s riding the last push of a big wave created by Zeller. Instead of A-Hope projects, we should have been building every extra available spot on the bench with shooters and Indiana savvy ballers that wouldn’t care about their own “going home parties.”

    Noah is highly skilled, but he doesn’t have the inside instincts and the running the floor abilities of Zeller. We had our window of opportunity. The need to ensure his next D-Wade the dedication and minutes to evolve into a top draft pick, and the relationships with Adams to put guys on the bench that had no business being division 1 basketball players, killed our chances to hang banner six.

    He is a preacher and a charlatan(what a rarity they go hand-in-hand). He appeals to families of his recruits that place high importance on an headmaster example selling the gospel. Has anyone noticed how Cody drastically changed his Twitter page from how it appeared while playing for Crean? All the dominating glowing cross symbols are gone….as is the winning basketball. Praise thy Lord for what we had, I suppose. Forgive us our Jeff Meyer trespasses….

  • Double Down #13


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 4:56 PM EDT

    Geoff, I think it is hard to tell. Recruiting is a longer process than just one calendar year. I think if we have a similar year like this one next year, then it is possible. Probably more so because his seat would be scorching hot and kids would be afraid to commit if they believe a coaching change is a strong possibility.

    UK had a miserable year last year, but they closed the #1 recruiting class again. They’re good, but not as good as advertised this year. If UK gets knocked out of the tourney early with all that talent, I’d still find it hard to believe that Cal would see a drop off in recruiting. He’s been talking to most of these kids since they were 15. Maybe even younger. A one year dip isn’t a killer. Even though it is red meat for fan bases.

  • Double Down #14


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:01 PM EDT

    Noah is and will be better than Zeller. He’s 2 inches shorter and a better defender and rebounder. His offensive game is much better. Both NV and Zeller needed work in the post. Zeller gets the nod as a much better passer and better in transition. However, transition is a team thing and this team sucks in transition. Hard to see where his potential is when our guards are turning the ball over at a 30% clip.

  • TJ in Texas #15


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:03 PM EDT

    Geoff–I asked Dustin or Jeremy what happens IF IU loses out to end seaso and is outed first game in BIG 10 tourney ; would Fred Glass Hear the disgruntled and disappointed voices ? I think IF that happens can the rumors be quieted of unrest in B-town.Thats what will impact recruiting.I think the future of IU bsketball rests in what happens from thursday on out. Especially on National TV and in front of home crowd

  • Lord of the Steadied Ship #16


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:04 PM EDT

    ^Yeah, that’s Harvard. Sue me.

    And Dan Dakich is even a bigger fool than Crean. He’s the Establishment’s answer to making everything IU into on big cynical folly. And screw Alford and Stevens. Hire a man that was always loyal to cream and crimson. Don’t hire some in-law wart to those that love everything Michigan.

    I truly believe Damon Bailey’s girls high school team would have projected more pride and love for the game on the candy stripes than what went on in Madison last night.

    Tear down the pipeline. They can’t play any better ball 10 states away than they play in Indiana and the surrounding cities just across our borders. Enough with these foolish experiments to just pad Crean’s resume in his never-ending quest to claim competence simply because he can find the next NBA dark horse.

    Please bring in a coach that understands the religion of Indiana and IU is founded in glorious rediscovery of something that looks like a team playing the game we know better than any other fan base in the country.

  • Lord of the Steadied Ship #17


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:26 PM EDT

    A contract extension for the recruiter that has taken the candy stripes to an all-out scramble to stay out of the deepest cellars of the Big 10? The Cody party is over, folks. Knight may have thrown a chair, but since when do we enjoy giving ourselves the electric chair? When are we done paying for the Sampson sins of 3-way speed dialing? Will Dakich be ESPN’s CEO by the time we’ve decide enough is enough? I’m thinking Dan might be the Pope by the time Crean is put on the bus with Fischer, Patterson, Roth, Remy, Maurice, Capo and everyone else he ran out of town.

  • Lord of the Steadied Ship #18


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:02 PM EDT

    Gotta admit Crean is being loyal ’til the end to the one Hoosier that made his contract; the one kid that never stopped campaigning on behalf of IU to Zeller and for Zeller. He’s been loyal to Austin…That’s one deal that hasn’t been broken. Austin survived the scholly crunches. Who’d have thunked it? Austin Etherington starting for the Indiana Hoosiers…It almost makes me shed a Danny Moore tear.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #19


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:21 PM EDT

    If these recruits care about their coach, then they better get their crap together and put 4 straight wins together.

    The way most of them are playing, they couldn’t secure a bench role on a mediocre JC team. Shouldn’t they start busting some chops for the coach that’s taking all the heat for the fact they can’t hit 10-ft. open jumpers? Time to take off the Pampers and move to training pants. Time to stop the thumb-sucking for these Hoosier freshman babies. Time play through the horrendous coaching and wing it…You are all wings, correct? Can’t you manufacture some damn points? Who taught you to shoot, Bill Cosby?

    And Yogi…Tell mommy that you’re not in Park Tudor candyland anymore. You’re at Indiana. This isn’t blue ribbons for winning Class 3A-4f tournaments. This is where Quinn Buckner and Isiah Thomas helped put up those big pretty banners that you get to use as your Twitter background. Those weren’t blue ribbons from mommy’s Crossover hits and slobber. Man up. Feed the ball to your center. Lead.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #20


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:46 PM EDT

    And one more thing…Hollowell, wipe that damn pouting bad-boy look off your face. Did you ever see Dr. J. with that face? Grow the hell up. Here’s the problem…When you shoot the ball, it appears the “well” is more often capped and not a “hollow” well. Show me some splashing of the nets about 30 times over the next four games, then you can bring your Mike Tyson look to every stoppage of play…O.K.?

    My movement smells like roses compared to your contribution to the “Movement” right now. If you don’t like basketball, try angry ping pong. Play X-Box NBA games all day and throw the controller through the TV screen. Don’t waste a good scholarship on the many ways to put a pouty face on camera.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #21


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:55 PM EDT

    And Sheehey…Much like your name, I’m still deciding on your sex. You got good hops…So does the Easter Bunny.

  • batman1952 #22


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 9:22 PM EDT

    I told ou five years ago the man can.t coach over rated as a recruitor, dwells on the little things that don,t mean a hell of a lot, and has snowed every one about his ability to coach. We will be mediocre as long as he,s there.

  • Geoff #23


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:00 PM EDT

    Batman – except he’s not overrated as a recruiter… You keep saying that, but that doesn’t make it right. I agree he’s not a great in-game coach, but he is one of the best recruiters in the country. How many other schools have signed a McDonald’s AA the last 4 years? And it’s not like we were beating out offers from Idaho or UMBC or Miami of Ohio for these other kids… They chose IU over other big time schools that also offered them scholarships.

    So if you want to have a discussion about how Crean doesn’t get the best out of blue chip recruits, then I’m all ears, but to say he is an overrated recruiter is flat out stupid and wrong.

  • Fab5 #24


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:48 PM EDT

    Geoff- You over value “McDonalds All Americans” and undervalue complete no name recruiting…Hartman, Hollowell, Etherington, Perea, Robinson, Jurkin should not be at IU…so he gets a couple big names, nice, but he misses badly on the routine fillers

  • Fab5 #25


    Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:55 PM EDT

    All the players I mentioned are bad players on a bad team, wouldn’t get a min on a good team, not a min on a top B1G team. Who recruited them?

    McDonalds AA is a HS reward, doesn’t guarantee NCAA success, also I think you are smart enough to know McAA is all politics, great players left off every year

  • fantasy basketball #26


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:03 AM EDT

    I’d like to see A. Bassett, J. Ellis, D. Thomas, D.J. White, E. Gordon and J. Crawford (coached by Podunker) taking on The Great Recruiter and his current team of great recruits. Guess who’d win?

  • Fab5 #27


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:04 AM EDT

    “And just cause I let you take one pretty girl home doesn’t mean I don’t have 3 in the cab already.” Outside of Yogi/Noah (who chose to come here for reasons other than Crean) no coach had any IU player as their top “must get him” recruit, no top coach lost sleep over where Stan or Troy ended up. Even James Blackmon jr admitted to wanting to go to UK but they signed two higher ranked players at his position so he went with playing time at IU. Crean isn’t recruiting any better than any coach did while at IU, Sampson got great talent, as did Davis. IU is the great recruiter not the coach. And lastly look at Marq, still doing fine there with getting talent, not missing Crean. The narrative of “he’s a great recruiter” is completely off base, once you take time to look at all the factors. Don’t forget “It’s Indiana!….it’s INDIANA” -rich Tom Crean

  • Geoff #28


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:59 AM EDT

    Yeah, besides the ones he got he didn’t get any…. That makes sense. Here are 3 facts I know:
    1) Crean has many faults, but he is a very good recruiter
    2) you have zero inside knowledge of why these recruits did what they did
    3) you have zero insight as to what coaches lost sleep over

  • Geoff #29


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:12 AM EDT

    I completely disagree with your list, and for multiple reasons…

    1) AE and Hartman committed when IU was was at a low point, and it’s bad form to rescind an offer once a player has verballed
    2) Hollowell and Robinson are definitely B1G talents, although only one appears to have the heart to do anything about it. You are mentally disabled if you don’t think Stan will be a very solid contributor during his career here. Every other team in the B1G would take him in a heartbeat.
    3) Perea and Jurkin are complete mysteries… For one, they have been injured and/or suspended for much of their important adjustment periods, and secondly, Crean is terrible at coaching big men, so we have no idea what they could do under a coach who develops bigs, much less a great coach like Izzo or Self.

  • Geoff #30


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:16 AM EDT

    Fantasy – are you putting up the freshmen version of all these players against eachother or the upperclassmen version? You can’t compare them based on what we’ve seen from the current players… Most of them are in their college infancy. You’re putting a lot of pressure on Podunker…

  • Geoff #31


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:36 AM EDT

    Fab – I don’t overvalue McD AA’s… I never said there aren’t politics… I never said great players aren’t left off…

    But here is a fact – not a single McD AA isn’t fought over by several top schools. It is, by and large, the greatest predictor of NBA talent.

    I value them highly, just as every single top coach in America does.

    JBJ chose IU over offers from – Michigan, Kansas, MSU (besides UK)

    Vonleh chose IU over – Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, Kansas, Ohio State, UNC

    Yogi verballed so early that he didn’t receive many offers, but did turn down Florida and Butler, who was coming off back-to-back NC games

    Cody chose IU over UNC in an all out war for his services

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #32


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:16 AM EDT

    I love how people are already prefacing the fair evaluation of Crean’s 2014-15 team based on whether or not Vonleh goes pro.

    Isn’t the mark of a great coach someone that can adapt and build a winning season even in the face of losing “centerpiece” recruits?

    How well he adapt this year with Cody and Oladipo going pro but still having the fortunes of a very skilled post player that’s ranked as a top 10 NBA draft pick? Other coaches adapt. How does Michigan stay on top after losing Burke, Hardaway, and McGary to back surgery? How does Beilein get a kid like Spike Albrecht to fill in for the starting freshman higher level recruit/PG, running his team’s backcourt to perfection, in a come-from-behind game at Purdue tonight?

    The mark of a great coach is what his teams do in adversity and constant challenges of top talent leaving for the NBA or top talent fouling out..or top talent not showing up for a particular game.

    Our continual low bar for Crean is perfect world scenario. It’s never a perfect world for a coach. It’s never the perfect match-up..It’s never the perfect bracket…It’s never the perfect officiating…It’s never the perfect timing of top recruits coming into their second year while another top recruit exits.

    There are coaches that can put teams into strong chances to win games outside the lovely world of all things remaining constant. Basketball is a game where nothing remains constant. Everything is in flux. Recruiting is tunnel vision compared to coaching. It is selling to one. It has absolutely nothing to do with leading many and teaching a team to function within the inevitable unpredictable nature of the 40 minutes each game.

    Show me a recruiter that can still put a .500 conference season together through some bumps in the road of losing his centerpieces to last year’s team and then you’ll have yourself something to call a coach worthy of contract extensions.

    We already scratched off the first three years his “imperfect” world he so miserably had to inherit from our fine basketball program. The fluctuation of top recruits coming and going happens at all programs. But at Indiana, it’s just another crutch and excuse for Tom Crean.

    Next year we’ll have Zeller…Next year we’ll have Yogi…Next year will have the next Dipo…Next year we’ll have shooters. Does that sound like fans that place true confidence in a coach? There’s over 10 players on that Hoosier roster that are this year. That’s a lot of throw away minutes for all the excuses of next year.

    This team had plenty of talent to produce far better results than what’s been achieved. How can we be so bamboozled? Indiana has never been a basketball program that segregates the classroom to make anyone wearing that beautiful storied uniform to feel victim of circumstance where they had the bad timing of not being on McCracken “next year.” I thought we valued undaunted. I thought we separated ourselves by proving what Steve Downing proved when he went up against Bill Walton at a Final Four..? I thought we loved proving that Indiana is the type of program where no year is sold out for next year.

    Maybe I’ve just lost my way.

  • fantasy basketball #33


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:06 AM EDT

    geoff, gordon was always a freshman. crawford too when he beat his brother’s kentucky (70-51, without gordon). you have sheehey as a senior, give me either dj (white) or lance (stemler) as a senior. armon was a soph, like yogi. i’ll take jamarcus as a sophomore and deandre thomas on my special team just to bearhug crean at each time-out. why? because crean is cute and he un-wrecked our program, man, he really did it. he’s clearly the best recruiter ever because he brought taylor wayer (a senior now, my, how time passes) to indiana. so, can i have another senior on my team, too? meh.

  • Fab5 #34


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:13 AM EDT

    Geoff you did nothing but spew Inside the Hall all over those posts, we’ll continue to see how it all plays out and who is or isn’t wrong about those projections, I keep waiting for a lot of your ‘truths’ to come true, so far still waiting.

  • Fab5 #35


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:15 AM EDT

    You also completely shoved aside my main pt which was that IU is the recruiter, not Crean. IUs brand, facilities, and fan base recruits for itself. Just ask all the top level players who have gone here because of IU and ended up playing for crap coaches like Davis, Sampson, Crean.

  • Fab5 #36


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:21 AM EDT

    So if Stanford was at PU averaging 6ppg on 46%, 23% from 3, 50% from FT, and being loose with the ball while being anything but cut physically you’d really point at that barely average team and say: “we need that guy!” Come on man!!!

  • Fab5 #37


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:26 AM EDT

    Forgot you were the guy who said next year IUs roster is final4 good, lolololololol forgot about that post, yeah you definitely overvalue all the recruiting garbaggio you read in your spare time, you keep believing Creans a good recruiter and we’ll see in 10 yrs when he’s at UAB how many of the McGeoff AllAmericans he gets.

  • batman1952 #38


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:32 AM EDT

    Geoff,are sure you are not Tom Crean in disquise?

  • Rico Chet #39


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:43 AM EDT

    You’re reaching Geoff, and you’re dead wrong.

  • Rico Chet #40


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:46 AM EDT

    I also remember Chet saying this before he left the Scoop last year. (IU will catch fire at the end of the season, and advance past the Sweet 16. Bank it.). Ummmm, yeah Chet. I tried to search for it, but couldn’t find it.

  • Geoff #41


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:17 AM EDT

    Yes, I’m Tom a Crean admitting that I have several coaching flaws and am terrible at coaching big men… I thought that would throw you guys off, but Scoopers are too clever.

    John 3:16

  • Geoff #42


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:23 AM EDT

    Fab, you don’t think that Izzo or K or Self would be considered a Final Four favorite with a roster of:

    Yogi, Blackmon, Williams, and Vonleh… Surrounded by a couple tough guys and quality back-up back court? That’s the best PG an best big man in the B1G next year with an incoming perimeter killer and super-athletic, potential laden wing…

    Izzo would be expected to take that group to the FF…

    The problem won’t be the talent… If it doesn’t happen it will be the coaching.

    And yes, Stan is a freshman. I’m not concerned about his stats. I’m concerned about his toughness, instincts and potential… He has those in spades, plus the requisite size to play his position.

  • Geoff #43


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:28 AM EDT

    As far as IU being the recruiter, of course that plays into it, but neither Knight (in his last decade) nor Davis recruited at the consistent calibre of Crean. I think Sampson was a great recruiter, but of a different type of player/person. Given a chance, under today’s rules, he very well likely could have brought a NC to Bloomington… If you willing to give up team GPA and slack on discipline.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #44


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:31 AM EDT

    I disagree with those that claim we’d be so much better if more offense flowed through Vonleh. I think we’d be incrementally stronger, but those returns would begin to dry up as well.

    We simply don’t have the 3rd cog in the wheel. Last season, we had three capable scorers around Cody(Oladipo, Hulls, Watford).

    Didn’t many of us believe that someone on this team would emerge as another legit and consistent threat? It just hasn’t happened. When I was making my predictions and believed wholeheartedly that this team was tournament worthy, I thought the odds were in our favor that shots would begin to fall or a 3rd “star” on this team would emerge. Just one more dangerous and confident player would have changed the dynamics drastically. It hasn’t happened. I really never thought it would be Sheehey. I thought Sheehey would be the glue and could come up with the momentum changing plays to spark a young team. But I honestly thought that Robinson, Williams, Davis, Hollowell…I thought somebody would emerge and have to be respected on the floor with something approaching how defenses concentrate on Yogi and Noah.

    That third cog would have loosened up a lot of tight play. I think this team gets tight in the second half..Teams know our dynamic duo and it’s not rocket science where to put the defensive concentration. Even if Noah gets 30 pts/night, I don’t think it changes things much. Maybe we win a couple more games.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that possibly the most vital guys on our team last season are not playing in the NBA. Christian Watford was a very undervalued member of that Big 10 Championship team. He made life a hell of a lot easier for the overrated center getting all the national hype. His outside shooting made life somewhat easier for an undersized Hulls that wasn’t on an island like Yogi.

    Blackmon could definitely become that important dynamic that makes everyone else on the floor more confident. I haven’t seen the young man play, but it sounds like he’ll be much like a Trey Burke…He’ll just make everyone around him much more confident.

    (That was my attempt at being positive in a very disappointing season.)

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #45


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:58 AM EDT

    Didn’t Knight get us to a Final Four in ’92? Elite 8 in ’93..Sweet 16 in ’94. Aren’t we bragging about Sweet 16′s currently?

    And when Knight was terminated, most claimed that the team Davis took to a Final Four were recruits that signed on to play for Knight.

    It’s hard to say if Knight would have had more success with those recruits than Davis. Davis did a hell of a job stepping in and making that storied run to the championship game.

    We’re still suffering from firing Knight. It’s not whether or not he deserved to be fired. We’re suffering from the brand recognition. Crean being a strong recruiter has nothing to do with building a brand. I think he’s being forced down our throats to fill that void. But you can’t force it. The fans have to want it in their collective hearts. A product can’t live on advertising alone. There has to be a feeling of legitimacy and credibility. I believe Butler was building that with Stevens…It wasn’t solely about recruiting. There was just an identity that fit for Butler. There was a truth that he was the man. And what a hit it put upon Bulter to lose that identity.

    Can Crean become for Indiana what Stevens had meant to Butler? Is there that trust and belief? I think Fred Glass has pushed it unnaturally. When you push too hard, you push away. Fred Glass has shown lack of business savvy in an attempt to make Crean into the Knight brand. It ain’t gonna happen. We’ll know when the fit is right. We’ll know when it looks right on the court and from the bench.

  • Rico Chet #46


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:01 PM EDT

    Geoff,

    You’re just like many of the bloggers here. No middle ground. If someone disagrees with you, it’s ok. Why do you always lash out? Just let it be. Let this be a free flowing blog. I think you take this too personal. Waste of time and energy.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #47


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:09 PM EDT

    When you push too hard, you push away.

    Reminds me of an old tune….Crean needed short contracts so we could hang on loosely, but not let go. We had “good lovin’ gone bad” with Bobby. We should have known not to cling too tightly.

  • Rico Chet #48


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:20 PM EDT

    Harvard,

    I do agree Mike Davis did a great job. I highly doubt Knight could have duplicated what Davis did. While I don’t think Davis was the answer, and couldn’t recruit the state worth a lick, he tried. That’s all you can really do.

    Though I wonder, what will it take for Hoosier fans to be content with a coach? Matta? Stevens? Maybe it’s just a ” hiccup” year. Maybe next year will iron out the wrinkles, despite no post player, of Vonleh leaves. I don’t know what to think anymore. I just want the season to be over, and stop the bleeding.

  • Ben #49


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:37 PM EDT

    Good song Harvard. Takes me back to the days of listening to 97.9 WLUP in Chicago….

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #50


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:03 PM EDT

    Four straight wins…? I know it’s asking a lot, but it’s not impossible. 19-12(overall) and 9-9(conference) going into a Big 10 tournament? Get to the championship game of the Big 10 tournament? The door is not mathematically closed. Three home games and just one final match-up on the road.

    Minnesota has 9 conference losses..Nebraska has 7 conference losses and still has to play Wisconsin and us at Assembly. They could easily end up with 9 losses.

    Where does the committee draw the line? Do they only take five from the Big 10? Will they take a .500 team from the conference? It’s not impossible. Keep the faith.

  • Seahawk Tom #51


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:03 PM EDT

    Tom Crean was the best man available that was WILLING to take the job 6 years ago. He’s proved to be a good hire, in that he did get us out of the muck, back into the spotlight, and back to being on the radar of 5 star recruits. But he may have reached his ceiling, which is perfectly OK. He had good teams at Marquette, but 5th place was his permanent residence, while 1st place was only a time share condo in Sarasota for him.

    I think IU is at a place now where they can dream big for their next coach. Crean can also expect that his stock is pretty high, and I could easily see him jumping ship before his stock falls.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #52


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:37 PM EDT

    I could see Romar coaching the Hoosiers. He seems like a very good man. Likes uptempo ball. Be a nice change. Given the right opportunity and the local talent that flows out every corner this basketball state, I think Romar could prove to be a great choice.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #53


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:48 PM EDT

    I don’t think ‘dreaming big’ is the answer. We should seek intelligence and values. We should seek a coach that might not necessarily be in the spotlight, but could really blossom in the right setting. Washington is a solid liberal institution and I think a guy like Romar could bring some of those positive, well-rounded values, back to Indiana. His players always seem to work their butts off and take a lot pride in their minutes.

    We need something that starts at the roots rather from the heavens….We need to redefine Indiana from the soil upward rather than the endless staring up at the clouds and the banners. I think Romar would be a perfect coach because he seems grounded and humble.

  • Geoff #54


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:49 PM EDT

    Rico, I let a lot of things go by without comment… In fact, I let almost everything Harvard writes go by these days. But sometimes things are just so glaringly wrong I feel like commenting. It’s not a personal thing, it’s a how can you possibly be that foolish thing… And if you’re going to be foolish, and not being a troll about it, then it’s difficult for me to just let the foolishness to fly by without comment.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #55


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:55 PM EDT

    Romar is known by his fellow coaches as one of the top basketball recruiters in the country. Additionally, he is respected as a genuine and optimistic person and was once voted “the opposing coach players would most like to play for” in a Pac-10 poll.[1] In March 2006, Romar was given the prestigious Coach Wooden “Keys to Life” award for outstanding character.(courtesy: Wikipedia)

    That’s my type of coach. Decent and smart man that’s not a whiner or excuse maker.

  • Rico Chet #56


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:00 PM EDT

    Like I said, you’re exerting precious energy. You can’t stand to be criticized. That’s my point. It’s sunshine and lollipops when people agree, but when they don’t, it’s like “duh” to all of us. Nothing wrong with commenting, but you’re not going to change anyone. If you’re hellbent on making this blog your legacy, then I don’t know what to tell you.

  • Double Down #57


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:02 PM EDT

    Havard, good posts.

    Can’t disagree with much. My follow-up comment has to do with Glass and marketing. Let me preface this and say I like the job Glass has done for the most part.

    The unfortunate effect of sports at the collegiate and professional level are these new sports marketing positions. I really enjoy watching the NBA game, but hate the crap around it. There isn’t a second that goes by that some sponsor, event, contest or stupid cheer isn’t rammed down your throat in the phoniest way possible. College ball has retained a good portion of its soul. I guess that is why the William Tell Overture at the 12 min mark is such a cup of cold water in the desert. It is more than just excitement, it is pure.

    I get the entertainment value of this stuff, but it really isn’t that well executed. Glass has been particularly obnoxious with football. Except, I think it is awesome that he seems to have the unstated goal of blowing Memorial Stadium up with fireworks. Moving the WTO to football has been flat. The stupid cheer in the student section with the arm pumping has to go. It is just so forced.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #58


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:10 PM EDT

    You don’t have a foolish bone in your body, Geoff….outside the possible exception of how much time a new father spends on a college basketball blog to slather himself as an all-knowing hoops genius while junior sits in front of the tube watching back-to-back-to-back repeat showings of Space Jam.

    I believe I can fly
    I believe I can touch the sky
    Think about it every night and day
    As I watch daddy blog away
    I believe I can soar
    The sound of daddy typing is such a bore
    He’s opening his stat book night and day
    While I rest in soiled Pampers this way.

    Please get off your high-horse, Geoff. You’re just as damn foolish in your wannabe coaching fantasies as anyone else here. And the time spent here changing nothing is no more admirable than anyone else foolishly doing the same.

  • Seahawk Tom #59


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:13 PM EDT

    Harvard, interesting comments about Romar. He’d be intriguing. Don’t fool yourself into thinking he’s any less god-fearing than Crean, but at least he’s much lower profile about it and doesn’t tweet Joyce Meyer.

    I’d be afraid of his style being too similar to Crean’s – up tempo, a premium on guards, not always great defending teams – but he does get a lot out of his players, and coaches a LOT of good players into the NBA (players that actually perform at the next level, not just get there). He’s known for making magic with 4 star recruits who stick around for a while; his teams that have featured 5 star recruit 1st round one-and-dones never do that well, however ( Compare the Brandon ROy, Nate Robinson, and QUincy Pondexter teams with the Terrence Ross, Spencer Hawes, and Tony Wroten teams). Not sure how that would pan out with top tier talent.

    He also loses recruits to Kentucky. That shouldn’t sit well with an IU fan base.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #60


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:25 PM EDT

    Double Down-

    Thanks. Best ignore that last post. Foolishness gets the best of all of us sometimes in this immeasurable productive world of commenting on sports blogs. How much of the GNP is now reliant on how well new technologies lure in more and more zombies to waste away their time? Chet was smart. He’s probably started up on restoring the old sailboat again. If so, there’s a man not so foolish.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #61


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:38 PM EDT

    Jerry West made some interesting comments about the upcoming NBA draft..Sorta goes back to the ‘brand’ thing. He’s not too excited about this supposed stellar group that will enter the draft this year…He’s not fond of the direction the whole process and it appears he believes there’s a real lack of maturity that comes from exiting college quickly. It makes it difficult to find a true star that can help a struggling NBA team find positive results in the immediate.

  • Ben #62


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:48 PM EDT

    Had to play the GOD card didn’t you Seahawk? Ok, so he tweets. Who cares? It’s his account, and can do as he wishes. You can also avoid the feed if you wish. Bitch about something else. Substitution patterns, etc. I doubt Crean trades in his faith, but with some pressure, might change his coaching philosifies.

  • Seahawk Tom #63


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 2:55 PM EDT

    Ben, I “played the card” because of Harvard’s history of complaining about that very point. Not because I myself mind it that much.

    For what it’s worth, you know, NCAA champion Rick Pitino came out recently and said that Twitter was poisoning young athletes’ minds. I thought that was a pretty bold and commendable thing to say. As a coach, you want to try to teach selflessness; Twitter is the ultimate opposite of selflessness.

  • Ben #64


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:14 PM EDT

    I’m sorry Seahawk. As soon as I posted it, I regretted. Again, I’m sorry and no hard feelings.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #65


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:21 PM EDT

    Wow….And here I’ve been trying to be understanding of Ben. Someone always trying to stir trouble.

    Ben- I have no problem with Christianity. I have issues with those that use faith, juxtapose images of IU basketball with the cross, and sell it, in what I believe, an unscrupulous manner. It may be their right, but I still think it’s tasteless.

    Crean took off the logo and images of IU basketball from his Twitter page. But he pretty much “played his cards” already so my opinions about him haven’t really changed.

    And ‘Son of God’ opens tomorrow, Ben! And only moments ago I heard Brooke Baldwin say “Jesus is hot!” Chill. And Piers Morgan had on the makers of the new ABC Jesus movie on CNN last night. The world is good for Kathie Lee Gifford right now. Christian Mingle commercials during timeouts of NBA games. Jesus representin’….

    No need to be offended by the small voices of the minority that simply desire something deeper where faith isn’t necessarily served like a Swanson mac ‘n’ cheese TV dinner.

  • Ben #66


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:22 PM EDT

    I think Social Media in general is damaging. Facebook, Twitter, etc. If it wasn’t for extended family, I’d say “see ya” to Facebook. Blogs too. They can be poison to the soul, if you’re not careful. Life was simpler without these means of communication. You actually had to write letters, and make a phone call. So I agree with Pitino. These days, everyone is an expert, and Facebook, Twitter, Blogs don’t help any. However, I think Twitter is the lesser of the evils. It all boils down to using it correctly, like all things in life.

  • Ben #67


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:25 PM EDT

    I’ll be watching the movie Harvard, and I’m sorry. As I stated, I overreacted. Possibly because as I left for work, I had a tire going down, had to call in, and waiting impatiently at Tuffy. Again, I am sorry.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #68


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:31 PM EDT

    Ben-

    You’re right. A lot of it is poison. But to be tempted, is to be human. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

  • Geoff #69


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:57 PM EDT

    Which is why I’ve cut waaaay back on my posting here….

  • hoosier rising #70


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:06 PM EDT

    impossible is nothing

  • Rico Chet #71


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:08 PM EDT

    Glad we have a understanding Geoff. Thank you for the polite debate. Good day sir.

  • hoosier rising #72


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:09 PM EDT

    crean was not willing to come here he was eager. when sampson was fired crean was going through the same exact motions with marquette. in fact there were plenty of blogs stating that iu got a salesman nothing more. crean was going to leave marquette anyway. by happenstance (which is how he coaches too) indiana had room for a walk-on coach. he’d be good for liu brooklyn where he’d play sacred heart twice a hear and st. francis four times.

    suHky your posts are sooooo weak lately. do a podunker, will ya? he was my favorite.

  • Double Down #73


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:10 PM EDT

    Social media is just a tool. You can listen to all the trash, smack talk and horse manure or you can tune it out. There is a lot of really great stuff on there. I find that it’s been an overall positive in my life and I enjoy connecting with all kinds through various channels.

    The speed and improvement in communication has been such an overwhelming positive. But Ben might be on to something. Nothing is ever purely good. For some folks, it can turn into an impersonal way of interacting with other people. I still pick up the phone and call folks I know regularly. However, writing letters is for the birds. For my friends and family that were/are in Iraq or Afghanistan, being able to email them often and immediately was of great comfort to them.

    Also, it is a great way to get more dates.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #74


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:02 PM EDT

    Harvard has often used the internet to hook up with dates as far away as California.

    You have to be cautious…Some of these dates have been in the sun too long and their tans have made for wrinkly premature aging.

  • Double Down #75


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:08 PM EDT

    Date them in San Francisco, Harvey. There is no sun here.

    But then again, this is the downside.

    Buy stock in Gillette and you’re golden.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #76


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:22 PM EDT

    Could you please provide the official link to that website?

    I’m guessing maybe a MorlocksMingle.com …? Or was that just some sorority girls from an early ’70s Bloomington?

  • Double Down #77


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:32 PM EDT

    I met those girls at the watering trough I went to last night. They asked me if they could borrow my comb. Since it was Richard Greco night, I had one on me.

    Never leave home without it.

    They have friends. They all live in the same commune. I’ll make intros.

  • Harvard for Hillbillies #78


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:33 PM EDT

    Probably the most helpful ‘tool’ for social media dating….Find where you belong.

  • Fab5 #79


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:59 PM EDT

    Geoff, that roster doesn’t scream dangerous, it screams unknown, unknown doesn’t scream final4, at all.

    I want to agree with you about Stan as I also thought highly early but no longer, I’ll be shocked if he makes the mental/physical maturity leap needed to become a legit threat.

    As far as all the other stuff, I have no problem disagreeing so I like and respect Geoff’s posts honestly

  • Punjab #80


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:05 PM EDT

    Harv, so glad you mentioned the Noah thing. I started writing about that last night, but the kids’ bath and bedtime crept up a little too fast. Thankfully, I copied the following unfinished thought hoping I could get back to it (Id forgotten about it until just now):

    “I get a little weary of all this “feed it to Noah” talk. Does he need more touches on the whole? Absolutely. But we have to do it judiciously. You saw what happened when we went to him several times in the second half– they packed the paint, he got tunnel vision, rushed things, and got turnover prone. Noah is a special player, no doubt. But until his passing catches up with the rest of his game, (and we have guys who can consistently finish when he finds them,) Noah’s at his best when he can dominate without being the focal point. First half? They didn’t know where we were going with the ball, in large part because because we hit some outside shots. Second half? Force feed Noah. It’s all we had, and they knew it.

    It’s also got to be hard for Crean to find lineups that work when you never know how a dude’s going to perform when he’s out there. ”

    Had to abandon ship at that point. Can’t remember exactly where I was gonna go with it, but I’m sure you get the picture. I will say, though, tha I agree with Geoff about next year’s potential, although I wouldn’t call it Final Four or bust like last year’s squad.

  • Punjab #81


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:09 PM EDT

    Maybe tonight’s one of those rare nights where everybody shows up to play for a full forty minutes?

  • Fab5 #82


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:25 PM EDT

    Would be nice Punjab, would be damn nice. All I want to see is good basketball, could care less about all this other crap.

  • Geoff #83


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:49 PM EDT

    Come on… If Izzo had the pre-season 1st Team PG and C, that were the returning leading scorer and rebounder in the conference, and one was a lottery lock, with a Gary Harris type scorer coming in, a Sam Thompson-like wing, and 80% of the roster returning you don’t think it would scream dangerous?! I beg to differ… Again, it isn’t the talent… It’s the coaching that will make or break that team’s potential.

  • Punjab #84


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:51 PM EDT

    Damn. Turned in ESPN just in time to see them erase a big deficit. Not sure what the lead was initially, but I saw them score 8 quick points to tie.

    Which brings up another point. I assume UK wins, but if they find a way to lose at home to Arkansas, that’s already 8 losses with a very weak SEC schedule. Wasn’t this team supposed to have a shot at going undefeated with the greatest recruiting class of all time (and what, no recruiting class ranked out of the top 3 in the last six year?) Couple that with last season’s debacle, should Big Blue Nation be writing letter upon letter to their AD insisting on a coaching change?

  • Punjab #85


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:12 PM EDT

    Overtime. Of course.

  • Fab5 #86


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 9:24 PM EDT

    Geoff I hear ya, however if the talent we have now was 75% of what you believe we would be a lot better than 15-12 regardless of whose coaching. There is a missing ingredient in this discussion and that’s chemistry which is the lowest of the 3 factors: currently talent is better than coaching sure but chemistry is worse than both. Your 1st team PG, lottery pick and Sam Thompson dude have 0 chemistry.

  • Geoff #87


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 10:25 PM EDT

    This is clearly not an overly cerebral group… They desperately need organization to take advantage of their skills and abilities. They are young and need experience, which is why I wouldn’t consider this year’s team highly dangerous even under an Izzo… They also lack multiple perimeter shooting threats… Something that should improve dramatically next year.

    Bottom line is the talent we have right now has very little experience at this level and very little experience playing together. Everyone is feeling out their roles, and many of them are feeling out the system, feeling out D1 competition, feeling out college life.

    I had higher expectations for this group than what they’ve shown, but I always considered it a bridge year.

  • Geoff #88


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 10:27 PM EDT

    Sorry… I forgot to say I absolutely agree with your chemistry take.

  • Fab5 #89


    Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 10:50 PM EDT

    Who are you picking to win NCAAs? MSU if healthy, is my pick

  • Geoff #90


    Friday, February 28, 2014 - 12:11 AM EDT

    That’s a solid pick… There’s still something about Arizona that makes me believe… I’ll take them. It would be a no-brainer for me if Ashley hadn’t gone down, but they are starting to understand how to play well without him. I think Nick Johnson, TJ McConnell, and Caleb Tarczewski are 3 vastly under-rated players. They lack depth, but they have quality at every position, chemistry, and a couple guys that can knock down shots off the bench. I think Miller is doing a hell of a job.

    I like MSU as a close second, if healthy, and Iowa State as a bit of a dark horse.

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